‘New’ Rangers claim to have paid all European football debt Scotzine January 11, 2013 Europe, Rangers 101 Comments Rangers chief executive Charles Green has announced that Rangers’ European football debts have been paid or have been settled with their respective debtors. The statement on the official Rangers website claimed: “There was no compunction for newco to pay or contribute to any monies owed by the former owners. There was money owed, for example, to Palermo for Dorin Goian and St Etienne for Carlos Bocanegra.” It continued claiming that Green decided that it was the ‘honourable thing to do’ to settle with those clubs that Rangers owed money too. Green told the official website: “What we have done since we came to Rangers was to act properly and not just for the best interests of Rangers but for football as a whole. We have a fiduciary duty and a responsibility to our share-holders and we want to run this club honourably and be fully transparent. “Coming to agreements with all of the European clubs where we paid all of the debts or reached settlements with them is another example of the commitment ‘new’ Rangers have made and not turning our back or walking away from oldco’s responsibilities. “So we have put down a marker in that regard and what we want to do now is get UEFA and FIFA onside. I have spoken to both organisations informally and in the next few months we will have some formal conversations.” If Green’s claims are correct then Rangers have paid debt to Rapid Vienna for the remainder of the transfer fee for Nikica Jelavic, GNAS for Mervan Cellik, Palermo for Dorin Goian, St.Etienne for Carlos Bocanegra – not to mention a share of the ticket revenue to Manchester City, Arsenal and Chelsea for friendly games arranged at Ibrox between the sides. 101 Responses PrideAndNoPrejudice January 11, 2013 I think you may have missed an important point in Charlie’s statement – “or reached settlements with them”. That would clearly infer that he did not in fact pay ALL of the debts. pistol pete January 11, 2013 Have they not shut this Bigotted shitehole down yet …. Scotzine January 11, 2013 Now why would they shut the site down Pete? Are we breaking any laws? PrideAndNoPrejudice January 11, 2013 It’s bigoted by the way, not bigotted. Notwithstanding the semantics though, please indulge us all and explain why you perceive the site to be bigoted. I fancy a laugh. Naefear January 11, 2013 OMG, Give it up you silly man with your silly little site!!! Scotzine January 11, 2013 Little? Sorry over 2.5 million unique hits states otherwise. Over 80,000 hits per month state otherwise. Not to mention our following on Twitter also. Sorry to burst your bubble. Naefear January 11, 2013 You are a bigotted man!!! No Rangers fans follow you because of your disgusting views and you think that is something to be proud of??? any site that has this level of bigotry on it needs to be shut down, you distort the truth the fit in with you hate filled agenda, really sad!!! Scotzine January 11, 2013 Naefear where is the bigotry point it out – just one statement that has been made that is bigoted? On you go. Where have I distorted the truth? I have published unedited quotes. Naefear January 11, 2013 Every story you have run on this site have been negative about Rangers and Fans, when this story finally unravels with BDO now being involved, you and all the other haters will find that “Craig Whyte and his lawyer Gary Withey, former Collyer Bristow employee, who reportedly “deceived” board members about the 2011 takeover, Rangers fans, players and ordinary working people at ibrox have dun nothing wrong, Rangers fans have shown remarkable support for this club, but all you can do is run stories with titles like “NEW” Rangers for petty point scoring and then all the Rangers haters come on with all the silly names! you need to look at yourself and ask if you are being balanced!!! Scotzine January 11, 2013 Naefear you will find that in the article and specific quote from Green he stated ‘new’ Rangers I am simply quoting him. mick January 11, 2013 very impressive stats andy well done to you and all on the site happy new year to you all robbie January 11, 2013 Is this site set up to purely have a go at Rangers?-i’ve been on here a few times and the anti Rangers drivel and constant slating is a clear display of sub standard journalism which is a poor attempt of trying to cover up your own dislike of all things Rangers. By all means report all things both good and nad but i’ve never read anything positive from yourself regarding Rangers-must be some size of a chip on your shoulder. stephen January 16, 2013 Thats because there is nothing positive coming from down govan way. Naefear January 11, 2013 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8cJSBQr6nA&feature=player_embedded VIDEO EVIDENCE – PRECEDENT IN SCOTTISH FOOTBALL CONFIRMING STRANRAER JUMPED TWO DIVISIONS IN 1994. Why are you not concerned about this porting integrity then? because it is Rangers on the receiving end!!! and you call us bigoted! Really??? PrideAndNoPrejudice January 11, 2013 In 1993-94 we had a 3 division set-up in a 12-12-14 format. Reconstruction created a 4 division set-up in a 10-10-10-10 (with 2 new clubs introduced). The placing of the clubs in the new set-up followed the logical order according to their final positions in the previous season – exactly as is happening now. Your point is therefore irrelevant. I really don’t understand what you Rangers fans expect from this reconstruction. Do you believe you should jump a division and be given priority over all those the clubs who will finish above you this season in the current division 2? At the end of the day, you’ll still be in the third tier next season, exactly as you would be under the current set-up – and it will still take you the same amount of time to reach the top division (although you keep telling us you don’t want to go there anyway). wolfhill January 11, 2013 Well done Rangers. When a company goes into liquidation legally they do not have to pay former debts. PrideAndNoPrejudice January 11, 2013 I assume what you really meant there was that when a newco takes over assets from an oldco that the newco is not responsible for the oldco’s debt. Indeed. The newco is also however unable to trade under the oldco’s name… Naefear January 11, 2013 Look no matter what you say or think in your wee world!!! this is all that counts:The ECA is the sole independent body recognised by UEFA and FIFA as representing clubs at European level. Ordinary members of the group are required to be playing in their domestic top division and be licensed to play European football. “SOLE INDEPENDANT BODY RECOGNISED BY UEFA AND FIFA” “Taking into account that the ‘new entity’ also acquired the goodwill of the ‘old entity’, it was held by the ECA executive board that the goodwill, taking into account legal and practical arguments, also included the history of the ‘old company’. “Consequently it was concluded that Rangers FC was entitled to associated membership of ECA as considered to be a founding member.” Now that is it but, your bigoted hatred will not let your mind accept this why? because it is not in your agenda, really sad man are!!! PrideAndNoPrejudice January 11, 2013 Where is the bigotry? You and others keep throwing up that accusation yet never demonstrate it properly. I can only assume that you don’t know what bigotry means. I’ve never been a bigot in my life – quite the opposite in fact. You should read my point again. I never said anything whatsoever that argues against your points about Rangers continuing as a football club. I made a basic point about company law. I run a company myself. If I was to transfer my ongoing business and clientele to a new company, there would be legal issues if I was to continue to use the old business name – or ILLEGAL issues to put it more bluntly. Now, tell me one thing I have EVER said that makes me a bigot. You will not do so though. Because you cannot. Naefear January 12, 2013 You miss the point and that is surprising for someone that has a company, a club and company are separate “entity” see the LAW below: RANGERS FC 1872. Rangers FC by “THE RT HON LORD NIMMO SMITH” It will be recalled that in Article 2 “Club” is defined in terms of “the undertaking of an association football club”, and in Rule I1 it is defined in terms of an association football club which is, for the time being, eligible to participate in the League, and includes the owner and operator of such Club. Taking these definitions together, the SPL and its members have provided, by contract, that a Club is an undertaking which is capable of being owned and operated. While it no doubt depends on individual circumstances what exactly is comprised in the undertaking of any particular Club, it would at the least comprise its name, the contracts with its players, its manager and other staff, and its ground, even though these may change from time to time. In common speech a Club is treated as a recognisable entity which is capable of being owned and operated, and which continues in existence despite its transfer to another owner and operator. In legal terms, it appears to us to be no different from any other undertaking which is capable of being carried on, bought and sold. This is not to say that a Club has legal personality, separate from and additional to the legal personality of its owner and operator. We are satisfied that it does not, and Mr McKenzie did not seek to argue otherwise. Source: THE SCOTTISH PREMIER LEAGUE LIMITED REASONS for Decision dated 12 September 2012 By THE RT HON LORD NIMMO SMITH, NICHOLAS STEWART QC And CHARLES FLINT QC The Commission appointed by Resolution of the Board of Directors of the Scottish Premier League Limited dated 1 August 2012 in relation to RFC 2012 Plc and Rangers FC Nothing is illegal see stock exchange listing below: ANNOUNCEMENT TO BE MADE BY THE AIM APPLICANT PRIOR TO ADMISSION IN ACCORDANCE WITH RULE 2 OF THE AIM RULES FOR COMPANIES (“AIM RULES”) ———————————————————————– COMPANY NAME: ———————————————————————– Rangers International Football Club plc ———————————————————————– COMPANY REGISTERED OFFICE ADDRESS AND IF DIFFERENT, COMPANY TRADING ADDRESS (INCLUDING POSTCODES) : ———————————————————————– Ibrox Stadium, 150 Edmiston Drive, Glasgow, G51 2XD ———————————————————————– COUNTRY OF INCORPORATION: ———————————————————————– Scotland ———————————————————————– COMPANY WEBSITE ADDRESS CONTAINING ALL INFORMATION REQUIRED BY AIM RULE 26: ———————————————————————– http://www.Rangers.co.uk (available upon admission) ———————————————————————– COMPANY BUSINESS (INCLUDING MAIN COUNTRY OF OPERATION) OR, IN THE CASE OF AN INVESTING COMPANY, DETAILS OF ITS INVESTING POLICY). IF THE ADMISSION IS SOUGHT AS A RESULT OF A REVERSE TAKE-OVER UNDER RULE 14, THIS SHOULD BE STATED: ———————————————————————– Rangers International Football Club plc following admission will own and operate Rangers Football Club Limited. Rangers Football Club, based in Scotland, has become one of the world’s most successful clubs, having won 54 League titles, 33 Scottish Cups, 27 League Cups and the European Cup Winners’ Cup in 1972. Playing at the 50,987 seater Ibrox Stadium, Scotland, and benefitting from the world class 37 acre Murray Park training facility, the club has been a dominant force in Scottish football for decades. The club generates revenues from match-day sales, broadcasting rights, retail and merchandising as well as other media rights. ———————————————————————– If any of you took the time to properly research the status of Rangers 1872 then you would know this but you make silly points and call them silly names that is why I believe people like you are bigoted or stupid, you decide. conlon January 11, 2013 Who believes Chuckles? section of empty green seats January 11, 2013 andy dyou get aroused when anything rangers comes to the news barcabuster January 11, 2013 Transparency has always been evident in Mr Green. Most people can see right through him. When the inquiry reaches a conclusion, and if it is decided that Oldco breached the conditions and stripped of titles. It follows that the prize money was collected illegally. This may be a matter for the law, but whatever way you choose to look at it, it will certainly be a football debt. This will be a considerable sum! How will Mr Green repay this? Martin January 11, 2013 Celtic fans have had plenty to say about the poor clubs who were owed money. Now those debts have been settled but the Celtic fans still don’t seem very happy. Ian Ferguson January 12, 2013 Martin, I was not going to bother commenting on this issue simply because Green did what was required by him under the Five Way Agreement, no more & No less. He paid FOOTBALLING debt, as agreed, because there would have been problems for his new Club with the Footballing Authorities if he had not. So here we are once again commenting on a Green statement which is Bullsh*t, He paid because he HAD to as simple as that. Jeezo, we are reaching a stage where THE Rangers are wanting praise for paying SOME of their debt.. Alan Spume January 11, 2013 It’s interesting to see how people see themselves these days. I used to be a Rangers fan. I reached the age of 25 (I’m 42 now) and there was a sudden realisation of what Rangers represented to my mates and fellow fans. This was a club that refused to sign Roman Catholics until the 1980s. I still can’t believe that it was allowed to carry on with this policy. Today it no longer has that employment policy but the same people support the club. I have a major problem with Rangers. I’m not a bigot. I simply don’t like Rangers because of the club’s association with institutionalised bigotry and sectarianism. Buffythecat January 12, 2013 I’m curious. . .why didn’t the rAngers get a vote on reconstruction? Oh I remember, it was because they are not a full member of the Scottish Football Association. Why are they not a full member?. . .cos they died last year and (even with no proper accounts) were given a BIG UNLAWFUL FAVOUR by the SFA to slither themselves into a league that they were not entitled to be in. In truth they should be playing in the Highland League or something similar. So all you Sevco fans giving it Blah, Blah, Blah about how important you are just remember the facts. You are a Highland League Zombie club with no more right to be playing in the top tier of Scottish football than ‘Cove’ the REAL Rangers. Show a bit of humility with regards the train wreck you left behind in Scottish football when you died and you may get a bit of sympathy otherwise suck it up! Naefear January 12, 2013 Because we are full members of the SFA and associate members of the SFL as a “founding member” same as ECA, but you will not accept this point as your wee silly names will not work, very sad!!! PrideAndNoPrejudice January 12, 2013 YOU are the one who is not accepting the point – you are an associate member and you have no vote. You may not like it but it is a fact. Ian ferguson January 12, 2013 NAEFEAR: What is your point exactly? You are where you are through rules being bent to allow it, if the rules had been followed there would be no football at Ibrox this year, the Tribute Team would not have existed. Whether Reconstruction goes through or not will be decided by the teams who count,IE those with a Vote on the issue. THE Rangers will be in the 3rd Tier come what may, unless MORE Rules are broken. Why not just be grateful for past favours given by the SFA/SPL/SFL & get on with it? As The CEO of a New Club with no vote Green has a lot to say & in that unremitting Rangers way threatened to sue even more people. He has no real say in Scotland yet wants to tell the EPL & UEFA how to run their businesses. Today he even gave us a few old well known sayings in his good old Yorkshire way I have one which suits him & sums things up… EMPTY Vessels make Most Sound. Onwards and upwards January 12, 2013 You do not write bigoted stories, you just cannot stand anything Rangers and are extremely negative towards Glasgow Rangers. This makes your site come across as though you actually hate Glasgow Rangers and are trying to keep down something that is bigger than you and your site. I get the impression the editor, pride ans pred, the green one and Andy Muirheed are the same person. Either that or you all read the same guff and are deluded. People say you are bigoted because of the hatred towards Rangers, its as though you cannot live and let live, the history of articles highlights this. PrideAndNoPrejudice January 12, 2013 We are not all the same person (incidentally I’ve only been on this site for a matter of weeks). My opinions are my own and I am as free to air them as you are to air your opinions. You accused us of being deluded. Please elaborate. If you can show me anything I have said that is delusional then I will happily and graciously admit I was wrong. I am not deluded though – indeed I am more often a victim of delusion with some of the responses that I receive to my comments. At least you had the decency to recognise that there is no bigotry in my comments. Others, please take note… Onwards and upwards January 12, 2013 Why should Rangers be invited in? Because reconstruction is supposed to be to help Scottish football develop professional clubs, why would you exclude the biggest professional club in the country? Rangers fans want nothing out of this as we know it will not happen for next season no matter how desperate SPL are to push it through. Rangers are the biggest show in the country and SPL are nothing without us. We know it, when are the rest o you gonna get we the programme? 54 and counting! Ian ferguson January 12, 2013 How deluded is that for a comment? Sums it all up really. RFC(IL) were so professional that they traded while insolvent, were Tax Cheats, refusing to pay tax to HMRC which they had collected & other Tax debts they agreed they owed. They folded owing Creditors & were Liquidated when A CVA was refused. Even Green & Traynor agreed they Died. Rules were broken to allow Sevco a fresh start & renamed THE Rangers, they are on the verge of winning the 3rd Division Championship in their first season. Why not just go & ENJOY it? Now all you need is to earn some Respect… To get it, you have to give it.. You are Not the people, you are Not missed, the rest do Not have to get their act together to accommodate you, no one cheated You, old RFC(IL) Cheated Them. Against the Rules Sevco have been given a new start,now renamed THE Rangers, you should try & build on what you have. The Original Rangers died in disgrace as Tax cheats, this New Rangers should be building bridges instead of threatening all & sundry. Green is a constant moaner threatening anyone & everyone with retribution, today it is the EPL & UEFA.. How many people have RFC(IL) & THE Rangers threatened to sue so far? How many writs have been issued? It’s put up or shut up time. Get on with it in Scotland or Go..If anyone else will have you. I’m easy either way, I’ve never seen so many ungrateful wretches willing to blame everyone but themselves. Onwards and upwards January 12, 2013 What? Another bitter Celt…. Like I said, 54 and counting, come back with an argument about the state of Scottish fitba with crowds down in SPL and fans in uproar because the agenda is being pushed through without fans consent. Ally shakes hands with every opposing player, coach and manager win lose or draw home ans away, we have and continue to have respect worldwide regardless of your attempts to put us down. As for 54 and counting, ECA said so, case closed…. Ann January 12, 2013 Where is this reported crowds down in Scottish football ? Fans in the SPL up in arms, ? where abouts, on your own wee planet ? do you honestly believe that. If so tick tock tick tock Onwards and upwards January 12, 2013 Ann, I’d show you a link but you should find these things out for yersell before posting. You been to parkhead lately? Average SPL crowds are down on last year, fact…I’ll go as far as saying the only league with improved attendance is div 3. Obv!? Ann January 13, 2013 Onwards and upwards it really does depend on who’s facts and figures you listen too, sorry I don’t do links but then I am one of the uneducated, or a woman or sellic supporter, take your pick. You can find supposed facts and figures anywhere you like, it has even been reported with Celtics European exploits we are well up this year, and can I just say not missing sevco in the least. Ian ferguson January 13, 2013 O&U, Dream on. The Managers in the SPL say it’s the BEST yet. Celtic earned them extra money too & gained increased sponsorship for themselves with the Magner deal. I look forward to the published accounts, if THE Rangers break the habits of RFC(IL) & actually publish some. There are good indicators to see the way the wind is blowing. THE Rangers have good attendance figures, but at cut prices, little TV money & a successful Share issue. Celtic have sold MORE Season Books at Full price, have Full TV money, good sponsorship & £30m Euro money which exceeds the Share Issue money. It would appear that Celtic are actually opening up the gap between the teams. The next few years could be hard for THE Rangers… maybe that Ladies league is a good idea after all. Bobo January 15, 2013 Celtic are only behind Man Utd and Arsenal on average attendance. £30 million raised from Champions League and the sale of Ki. Still in 4 competitions for the first time in over 40 years. As for the other clubs. Hearts holders of a cup, Killie holders of a cup, ICT having their best season ever, Hibs attendances up, Aberdeen attendances up, both Dundee teams selling out their derby matches, Motherwell raked in money from euro ties they otherwise wouldn’t have had. We’re all getting along just fine without you thanks. lewis January 12, 2013 The hatred from certain sections of the SPL and SFA towards Rangers has been clear over the last decade or more … is anyone really surprised that they continue with the ruination of the National game by continuing to persecute the biggest and most successful club in the land? Their bitterness ( and that is what it it) would have them kill our game rather than include Rangers … sad reflection on them and also the writers on this site and the many anti Rangers trolls that frequent it … Scotzine January 12, 2013 Rangers persecuted for a decade? Sorry but that is a laughable statement. Their demise has been at their own hands no one else is to blame just Rangers FC. But as per usual the tactics of deflect deflect deflect are in full swing. Ian ferguson January 12, 2013 LEWIS: What a crock. RFC have NOT been persecuted by anyone, certainly not the SFA. If anything, a lack of action by the SFA allowed RFC(IL) to continue onto the rocks & be wrecked. If the rules had been imposed, RFC would have had to cut its cloth to suit its situation. Instead, Euro licences were granted when they should not have been & dare I say, “Honest Mistakes” allowed Euro income streams which would have saved RFC had they been used to pay debt & balance the books rather than poured down the drain. RFC’s Owner & Board’s decisions led to RFC being sold for ONE POUND when their Bank had no confidence in them & their owner could no longer afford them. Enter Whyte & the rest, as they say, is History. RFC(IL)? Dead & Gone when the CVA failed, with Sevco, renamed THE Rangers, being Given a Conditional Licence and ASSOCIATE Membership allowing them to start over. The Five Way Agreement was against the rules but laid down certain stipulations including paying Football Debts, which it seems THE Rangers have now managed to do, although reading their comments on it, it would appear THEY did others a Favour by paying Some of the debt. Green & THE Rangers supporters have done nothing but moan ever since Sevco were allowed into Scottish Football. It is everyone else to blame, they have a sense of entitlement which is not being met so threats & Boycotts are the result. THE Rangers have been helped, but not enough to satisfy them it seems. For a team which was “Happy” according to it’s Management & supporters to go into the Fourth Tier & work their way up they have done nothing but moan about it ever since, complete with threats of revenge when they “come back”. Either grow up & act in a proper fashion or go away, if there is anywhere for you to go. Ann January 12, 2013 Do sevco actually think before they type, you really should sing your wee ditty to yourselves. No one likes us we don’t care, it’s obvious you do, the poor sevco. Some people need to see facts first not just listen to chuckie. Do you honestly go through you- tube trawling for like minded, do you really put yourselves on a level with the likes of Stranear ? Oh how the once mighty have fallen Dave M January 12, 2013 What is bigoted in this article? It is a serious of quoutes finished by what debts likely would have been settled. Nothing negative is said. Dave M January 12, 2013 Or series even. Onwards and upwards January 12, 2013 Dave M, do you actually take this type of reporting seriously? You think there is no negative view towards Rangers on here? Man you are deluded! Sites ans reporting of this nature is the exact reason hatred continues to flow between the old firm, I can appreciate it is not the only reason for hatred bit sites like these certainly fuel the fire. Also if you think the SPL and SFA have not ruined the Scot game then you aint paying attention, Scotland are crap and levein was appointed by SFA, he played utd players who were shit and looked for English lower division players rather than Scots. There has been a hate agenda against rangers for a long time now and It’s damaging Scottish football as the biggest club lost all our scottish internationals so now we have a couple of home grown internationals playing SPL, when Celtic go out cl and hooper and wanyama and co leave ESPN will have pulled the plug and Sky will offer pennies to monopolize, Celtic will have to sell just to balance books.. who caused these problems you will say.. was it Rangers who are keeping scottish fitba alive single handed? No this time Bobo January 12, 2013 Rangers are keeping Scottish football alive ? Really. They’re doing the SFL 3 clubs a great turn granted however I’m sure attendances are actually up in the SPL this year. In my opinion any league in the world would miss a club like Rangers but if they weren’t around Scottish football would continue. This is the most exciting the league has been in years. Ian ferguson January 12, 2013 O&U. You are one deluded fool. WHEN did RFC(IL) PAY for Scottish Football? They Died OWING Scottish Clubs money. In truth RFC(IL) did Scottish Football a LOT of Harm. They introduced a level of players & wages, based on debt & other peoples investment, which was not viable or sustainable & which other teams tried to compete with thus putting themselves into debt. The difference between RFC(IL) & say Kilmarnock is that Killie are in there STILL paying their debts & trying to balance their books… RFC did not & when a CVA was refused they died. Amid claims of Armageddon without RFC(IL) the SPL is doing OK… It has the debt which will have to be repaid unless everyone starts over like Sevco were allowed to, but it did not fold as predicted by Traynor & his fellow travelers… Big Butcher says it is the best yet & turned down a job in England to stay. Now here is a thing, HE is building a team capable of qualifying for Europe on a shoestring while Fat Sally is following the RFC(IL) Model of Overspending & underachieving… Old habits die hard it seems. Celtic have done well, Both in Europe & by bringing extra income into the SPL, they have also attracted increased sponsorship money. In your doom laden tripe you say Celtic may have to sell players to balance their books… I honestly don’t think so but, if you are right, if Celtic after all that success & £30m Euro money HAVE to sell player then hey Presto, Just look at the players they could sell. Now compare…THE Rangers have cut price ticket income, FAR inferior to Celtic’s Season Book Income a share issue which achieved LESS than Celtic earned in Europe… So let’s say it all falls apart & player sales become necessary throughout the leagues, who Could THE RANGERS sell… Black or McCulloch? No chance..Maybe some of the youngsters in a Fire Sale but that would be self defeating. I LOVE this, every time some idiot like you comes on trying to paint a picture of how we can’t manage without Ra Rangurs or how we will all be sorry it cheers me up. Do NOT look at what MAY happen to all of us… Just look at what actually happened to RFC(IL) & Beware.. it could happen to Sevco aka THE Rangers & sooner than you may admit possible. Onwards and upwards January 12, 2013 He paid all the debts ,, pride and none.. you misunderstand his statement and you live for the semantic PrideAndNoPrejudice January 12, 2013 You misunderstood me. He made a point of saying that he’d “reached settlement”. That suggests that he offered clubs less money than was actually owed. Ian ferguson January 12, 2013 O&U: I think P&noP was too subtle for you. He is showing you how to read what Statements actually mean… Settlement usually means that the person owed “settles” for a lesser sum in payment of the debt rather than risk getting nothing…. So THE Rangers “Settled” rather than “Paid” the debt according to the story. Let’s face it, who could blame them, Non Football folks got… well I will let you tell me O&U… What did they get? Onwards and upwards January 13, 2013 Hey, I don’t put as much effort into all this reading legal shit and coming online to make a point that Rangers are a newco, oldco, sevco. I have a life. I supported Glasgow Rangers and have my whole life, I see a club called Rangers who have 11 boys on the park at Ibrox, they train at the same training ground as always, I took interest in the newco oldco saga but have not obsessed over it. I seen ECA recognise our history so stand by 54 titles. We are in div 3 and we don’t really care, we enjoy coming on one sided sites like this now and winding you up about paying debts, league reconstruction, SPL being doomed and Celtic generally being followed by idiiots and a load o cyber gimps, Charlie gets a reaction and I find it hilarious. fact is SPL crowds are down tho and Rangers are building our reputation slowly but surely and are the best team to have in town like it or not. Truth be told I just enjoy the fitba regardless where its at. You guys who have read all the legal stuff to come on here and post in your surreal site should put that effort into real issues such as the governments use of allowances and the high street guy who takes billions tax free or the other companies taking billions and put gers into perspective, poverty in Glasgow. Privatization of public services, cuts on working family benefits? Truth be told I put football into the category of fun and you guys should do the same rather than worry bout what’s happening we the gers all the time Onwards and upwards January 13, 2013 O&U, yer joking right? Lol we all know what Charlie meant PrideAndNoPrejudice January 12, 2013 NAEFEAR I hate to burst your bubble but your elongated answer has absolutely no connection to the points I raised. I asked a question about apples and you gave me chapter and verse about pears. I will repeat what I said in my preceding comment: I never said anything whatsoever that argues against your point about Rangers continuing as a football club. Answer me a simple question: would you like to see John Greig return to Ibrox? Answer me another simple question that you keep evading. When have I EVER said anything that is bigoted? I am neither bigoted nor stupid. Nor incidentally am I in the habit of calling your club silly names as you put it. You are one of those people that continually throw insults and accusations of bigotry simply because you don’t like facts and opinions that differ to your own. davybhoy January 12, 2013 Poor Rangers NC, Because this site dares to to tell the truth, prints the facts and wont concede principle, the absolute ignorant spiel out their usual persecution drivel and nonsense. So let me tell you how it is. You all sat on your fat arses’ for years while your club manipulated and cheated its way to titles they were never entitled to and its failed attempt to try and match the mighty CELTIC and their European Cup Victory. During this “play catch up” time your club over spent on a grand scale while your supporter groups and club directors turned a blind eye to what was going on. The rest is history. I suppose i’m a bigot for telling it how it was. Onwards and upwards January 12, 2013 No Davy you just don’t get it and pride this site comes across as bigoted because it only provides futile attempts to degrade Rangers, it hides behind a name scotzine yet only represents bitter Celts and their pals. Rangers ebt was not illegal, how difficult is that to understand? Maybe no the best way to run a club yet none the less not illegal. Actions taken by the SFA have been illegal and if SFA try to strip titles it will be to serve an agenda which has become so clear to all. Now watch ECA support Rangers history and Davy the only club playing catch up is Celtic 54 AND COUNTING PrideAndNoPrejudice January 12, 2013 It was proven that the EBT scheme did not meet the necessary conditions for it to be regarded as a tax free scheme. It is all there in black and white in the FTT report and representatives of the club did indeed admit that the rules for EBTs were breached. The only reason that 2 of the panel found in favour of Rangers was because the end paperwork made the payments out to be repayable loans. Side-letters proved that the payments were contractual. That alone is enough to determine that the rules for an EBT were breached and that the payments should have been subject to PAYE (with the exception of those for non-playing staff where the payments were properly discretionary). There is far more I could add to disprove the legitimacy of the EBTs but it is not necessary. The side-letters alone are enough to prove that the payments were contractual and not discretionary – and thus PAYE should have been applied. The SPL Commission will have no choice but to find that Rangers breached the rules by not declaring payments made to players. To repeat myself, it is all there in black and white. Rangers made contractual payments to players that they did not declare to the SPL. There is an interesting aside here in deliberating whether or not the payments were wages under another name. Quite aside from the contractual side-letters, the payments were taken into account when calculating the insurance cover for paying the players’ salaries. If you haven’t done so already, you should read the FTT report. It is quite damning and leaves no room for dispute. Onwards and upwards January 12, 2013 I will await the outcome of the appeal and base my decision on this rather than read a document and believe I can interpret the terminology and the law better than the court.. Ian ferguson January 12, 2013 WHAT? You had a rant… I am late on & was not going to reply because P&noP covered the contents of the FTT fully & admirably. He even defines the scope of why the SPL investigation is separate & evident, contrary to what the likes of Traynor would have us all believe. Your defence is… YOU Never READ the Document… Unbelievable. Onwards and upwards January 12, 2013 Pride, my point is all of your posts are based on the semantic. Read my posts and tell me how much u disagree with? Take a look at the big pictures… Sporting Integrity is what you all wish for yet you can’t see what is in front of your face for all the hype and hatred Ian ferguson January 12, 2013 O&U: I will decipher for you… Pride, your posts are based on FACTS… In standing with my club’s great tradition .. we do not do facts.. Look at the Big Picture… Jeeezo… Don’t… let’s kid on it’s all OK … We are ra Rangers… that’s all YOU need to know Pride… Get the picture now? Naefear January 12, 2013 PrideAndNoPrejudice and Scotzine like the “burst bubble” saying but they are not the same person????? LOL PrideAndNoPrejudice January 12, 2013 The Scotzine Ed is Andy Muirhead. He makes no secret of the fact and it is indeed obvious from the side panel. I am an entirely different person. I had never even heard of Andy until I first visited this site some weeks ago. Now, would you care to explain why you believe I am a bigot? And would you care to answer my question about whether you’d like to see John Greig back at the club? There is a point to that second question that I will highlight later. Stephen Pollock January 12, 2013 Settlement does not mean paid in full and lets face it their battle for a transfer fee for the players departed is mute if they cant say they have paid for all the goods. What a silly little club they are, with the least intelligent – world record level – fans. Ian ferguson January 12, 2013 Stephen, I think it is doomed to failure. There is no continuity between RFC & Sevco… So no claim can can be made that the contracts belong to Sevco because they are a Renamed RFC but the same Entity. There was no Consultation about Employee Rights & the safeguard of their Terms & Conditions… This is NOT optional… TUPE is there to protect the EMPLOYEE in the changeover to the NEW EMPLOYER…IF the Employee Agrees…If not, the Employee loses his right to continuity of employment & effectively becomes redundant, under the OLD EMPLOYER…BUT the NEW EMPLOYER’s claim to the services of the EMPLOYEE fails also… the contract lapses. Green admits to a Small Anomaly… Rangers were deid & Sevco aka THE Rangers did not exist… some “Small Anomaly”. This “Small Anomaly” has bigger issues, within Football, which need to be addressed. If neither RFC nor Sevco were active in Scottish Football between the 14th of June & the 3rd of August as Green says, HOW could Sevco play in the Ramsden’s Cup on the 29th of JULY? RFC(IA) were a member of the SPL until the share Transfer to Dundee on the 3rd of AUGUST so THEY did not play in the Ramsden’s Cup, it is not open to SPL Members …you can’t be a member of the SPL & the 3rd Division at the same time…So who did play as Rangers? Sevco were not a member of any League or Association within the control of the SFA when the SFA Offices closed on the 27th of JULY. Later a Conditional Licence was granted which allowed entry into the SFL’s 3rd Division. Membership of the SFL does NOT grant AUTOMATIC Membership of the SFA. To be a Football Team within the remit of the SFA you have to be a MEMBER. To Register Players you have to be a MEMBER, to register players the Office has to be OPEN, check the SFA defence on Gorge Cadette, which resulted in the demise of Farry in his SFA role. Sevco was not a Member until RFC’s Membership was transferred on the 3rd of AUGUST, so how could the RFC players REGISTRATIONS be transferred to SEVCO, a NON MEMBER, to allow them to play in the Ramsden’s Cup on the 29th of JULY? How could the NEW signings, who played on the 29th of JULY, be Registered if the SFA were CLOSED & Sevco were NOT MEMBERS until the 3rd of AUGUST? I think Green’s rant has opened a can of worms…. What do we have so far? Jeezo I will chuck it now, the List comes to about THREE PAGES. I would love to hear an SFA explanation which was within the Rules. Bobo January 12, 2013 Naefear, you’re accusing someone of being bigoted because they have an opinion of Newco Rangers that you don’t like. This doesn’t make them bigoted. I suggest you learn what the word means before you go around throwing wild accusations. While we’re on the subject of Newco Rangers. Why would a company pay the debts of a entirely different company when there is no need to? Absolute nonsense from Chuckles Verde ……..again. Ian ferguson January 12, 2013 BOBO: Because he HAD to pay. It was part of the Five Way Agreement which allowed Sevco to exist as a Limited SFA/SFL Member & to Transmogriffy….. Into THE Rangers.. Ann January 12, 2013 Just you lot sit with your fingers in your ears ,tick tock Onwards and upwards January 12, 2013 And you keep yer blinkers on Ian ferguson January 13, 2013 O&U: I can understand the tick, tock comment from Ann, it’s there for all us watchers to see. Can you explain the “Yer blinkers” comment? It really rang a bell because you admitted to P&noP that you don’t read Fact’s & to my mind that makes you blinkered… So I am puzzled, what makes a blinkered ignorer of Facts able to recognise something which makes him think that someone who reads Facts is wrong? BOOM BOOM. Clowns like you are keeping me active in the bad weather. It’s a Cultural thing I think, if someone mentions something I don’t about or am dubious about, I go & read up on it & compare the contributors to see who, in my opinion is right… Sevco aka THE Rangers Supporters seem to have an easier method.. if you don’t agree you with THEM… YOU are a Bigot. Onwards and upwards January 13, 2013 Ha , you take this all a bit too seriously.. I admitted I had not read the outcome of the tax tribunal, nothing about facts so dinnae get yer nickers in a twist.. I’m not a gimp who has those sort of interests. Glasgow Rangers 54 and counting, confirmed by ECA. 2 judges found Rangers had not broken tax laws, that’s all I and most people will look for when the appeal is heard.. We are enjoying thr wind up, but your blinkers and denial that Scottish fitba crowds are not down is laughable, Lawell is out today confirming cross border leagues has been on the Agenda with UEFA and the ECA are pushing for it. Atlantic leagues are wanted by most of Europe now. SPL CROWDS DOWN. FACT, Cross border leagues being discussed by ECA and UEFA, Fact… Ask your masters.. Also one last one, has no one told you and ann, Rangers are too big to fail.. Fact Ann January 13, 2013 And have you never heard the saying, the bigger they are the harder they fall, you are going to hurt very bad when, not if this happens. Fact this seems to be a word sevco seems to use for no other reason than to look good, first of all though, you need to know all of them, I don’t think we have yet. Hope you enjoy your freefall, I certainly will Scotzine January 13, 2013 But O&U they have already failed haven’t they? Failed to deal with their debts failed to pay their PAYE and NI tax and failed to adhere to SPL rules on administration and liquidation. And if you think all of that is the club being a success then you really do need to get a dose of reality. Ann January 13, 2013 Onwards and upwards I can assure you I have no blinkers on I am enjoying seeing and hearing chuckie s rants, and what a cock up he is making with them. Tell me do you actually believe everything that comes out of his mouth ? I don’t pretend to know all the facts behind his stories but dear god he is giving me good laugh every time he opens his mouth, I am actually embarrassed for sevco fans. Onwards and upwards January 12, 2013 Stephen and bobo you are being idiots, the article says all debts paid, settled, finished, recouped, whatever way you look at it we aint owe any European debt and that is what Charlie came out and said, its sad Celtic fans jumping on semantics saying we haven’t paid it all, nae one said everypenny paid did they? Prideandpred is scotzine and the green one who appears, Andy Muirhead and his multiple personalities hiding behind his hate agenda pretending he has no bigoted views.. Scotzine January 12, 2013 Sorry to burst your bubble onwards and upwards – but I dont need to resort to changing my name to comment on what others post on this site. I use my own moniker despite what you think or believe. Ian ferguson January 13, 2013 Well said Andy, I have been slagged rotten about my name & even accused of using a Nom De Plume. It seems an alternative to calling you a bigot PrideAndNoPrejudice January 12, 2013 Unbelievable. Truly unbelievable. You need only look at our writing styles to recognise that we are not the same person. Perhaps you could start with the article that I wrote last month on the Ibrox disaster, where I even went so far as to disparage those who disturbed the minute’s silence when the memorial was revealed on the 20th anniversary – truly the actions of a bigot eh? You really need to have a serious word with yourself – and like many on here you need to look up the meaning of the word bigot. Onwards and upwards January 13, 2013 I apologise, that was maybe a wind up too far. When you read such hatred towards a club online you just tend to wonder why people go to such efforts Ian ferguson January 13, 2013 Leave it there. I have read what you say with interest & checked some things I was not sure of. I have found you to be factual & interesting. Is that not what this should be about? Difference of opinion does not make a person wrong.. The fall back position of name calling does.. To say Bigot or you are writing several times under Nom De plume status is actually insulting. A fact is a fact, whether you are Joe Bloggs or J.B. it makes no difference. Keep on commenting, but more important keep it factual, it rings bells for others & expands the discussion. Bobo January 12, 2013 Onwards. Every Rangers fan I speak to says that Rangers never died, the club is a seperate entity from the company-Fair enough. Why then is the new CEO of Rangers paying the debts of that company. I’m not trying to point score and maybe as you say I’m being an idiot. Its a straight forward serious question which I hope you or someone else can give the answer to. Bobo PrideAndNoPrejudice January 12, 2013 Bobo Despite his words to the contrary, Green was effectively obliged to pay the football debts. It was a condition of the SFA membership that he would pay the monies owed to other Scottish clubs. There was no such condition as regards the monies owed to the European clubs, but failing to pay would have led to FIFA taking action. Rangers ultimately paid Rapid Vienna £800,000 for Jelavic, which was a little over £200,000 short of the actual amount that remained owing. I have no knowledge as to what was pad for the other debts and nor do if I know if he settled them all, or only the debts pertaining to players transfers. No doubt it will come out in the wash at some point. Onwards and upwards January 12, 2013 As the editor you should really display your name or are you ashamed? It’s obvious to everyone who you are yet you hide away on your own site.. The only bubble burst is yours, you keep playing on semantics and keep giving us all a laugh Scotzine January 12, 2013 My name is displayed – on the site. Right hand side of it as well as staff page. Everyone knows who I am and who the editor is and far from being ashamed. But dont let facts get in the way of your petty attempt at point scoring. Onwards and upwards January 12, 2013 This whole site is based on petty point scoring. I’m reading from a phone so only see the article and posts. Same person or not you have the same agenda and report the same one sided bile. Can you all accept that when Rangers get their name on their next trophy it will go on the history books adding to our 54 titles? It will be recognised by FIFA, UEFA and ECA as title 55 and the name of our club is and always will be Glasgow Rangers? Or would that just burst yer bubble? Scotzine January 12, 2013 Maybe you should read the comments from your very own Andrew Dickson who stated that even if you win the Third Division title, then it wont be your 55th title. As he put it ‘only major trophies matter’. His words not mine. I have stated my opinions on the matter time and again, I wrote an article on it I won’t be changing my stance and I stand by every word that I publish. Onwards and upwards January 12, 2013 At the semantics to make your point again.. Andrew Dickson can have his opinion, does that mean we must all have the same? It’s a title and will be recorded as a title, and you will be reminded of this every time Rangers history is discussed outside in the real world where real reporters live… PrideAndNoPrejudice January 13, 2013 O&U, You said “the name of our club is and always will be Glasgow Rangers”. Oh dear. It is time to burst bubbles again… It may surprise you to learn this most basic of facts but your club has never been called Glasgow Rangers. It has always been Rangers (the name incidentally was adopted from an English rugby club). You may sing about Glasgow Rangers but you have never been formally known by that name. Many of your fellow fans do indeed object to being referred to by that name. Their consensus of opinion is that you are the one and only Rangers and should not have to prefix the name as if it was necessary to differentiate yourselves from the Coves, QPRs and Berwicks of this world. In my professional capacity, I am a tax specialist and accountant. In my spare time, I act as a kind of one-man-band citizens’ advice bureau. I give freely of my time, knowledge and expertise, sorting out tax issues, state benefit / housing benefit claims, CVs, job applications etc and building free computer systems for the poor. I see it as my moral, civic and ethical duty to assist those in need. Please do not therefore feel obliged to thank me for my advice. I am merely glad that I am able to assist you in your obvious need for information about your own club. Is there anything else I can help you with my friend? Yours in non-hatred non-petty-point-scoring non-bigotry, PrideAndNoPrejudice. Ian ferguson January 13, 2013 O&U: You are really struggling now to find fault. Would it not be obvious that an Editor comment or reply is given in relation to the Site/Blog & an Andy one is a personal opinion? How hard is that to understand? I know Andy can’t be on 24/7 due to Family/Job etc but hey, you are making it easy for him not to bother answering… How many times has he to say it? Just for clarification, does the refusal to make a non repetitive answer make him a bigot? Dave M January 13, 2013 You have a keen ability to read things in words that are not there onwardsandupwards. Do I take this reporting seriously? Not as much as you clearly. daviec1872 January 13, 2013 Onwards and Upwards…. A word to the wise mate, don’t even attempt to illustrate the truth and logic behind Rangers unbroken and contining History on this site. What you have here are a collection of Cellik minded types who are so grief stricken by our Clubs survival and ongoing recovery , that they still cling to whatever gives them comfort , even when all hope of our exctinction has gone. These people like to use this site as an extension of Kerryfail Street and as such they have succeeded in in making this place almost exclusively their own. They ,even now, cannot see that we are literally a league apart from them (mind you none of the SPL Clubs were ever in our League anyway) and that we want absolutely nothing to do with them and their self-serving ,narrow minded, myopic stench. The same can be said for the cabal on this site too. PS. I noted a comment from Ian Ferguson bemoaning that he has been accused of bigotry by some posters. Ian, after reading your comments over the past 9 months I have to say that if something reads and sounds like bigotry then its a pretty logical progression to call it bigotry , so perhaps you can see where these accusations may come from. Personally I would describe your posts as more bitter than bigotted but thats only my opinion, but I suppose there are some who would tell me I’m wrong. You have allowed your disappointment that Rangers and its supporters continue to live to manifest itself in your posts. You are a poor wordsmith and as such your posts betray your true attitudes and opinions. I dont come on here that much , mainly because I have a life outwith this trashy site ,unlike yourself Ian. But I do occasionally look in and it is always the same old faeces , I mean faces still posting the same garbage. Oh by the way… If any of you are looking for a ’55 Titles- Still going Strong’ T-Shirt please let me know. I’m reliably informed they should be available by the end of the month, and I might be able to get a group discount for all you guys on here. Scotzine January 14, 2013 now now Daviec – a trashy website? Sorry there are plenty out there that would fit the bill but I beg to differ when labelling us a trashy website. Ann January 14, 2013 Daviec1872 Think maybe all they new world records you are breaking is going to all of you and your sevco pals heads. You do realise everyone else in the SPL actually pay for full price season tickets, how much is sevcos, ? I could afford another couple of tickets for the family, if Celtics was cut price, and no matter what you come away with in the land of make believe, your next title is your first. I can now see why you don’t come on much, with you being delusional. PrideAndNoPrejudice January 14, 2013 You say that “we are literally a league apart from them” and yet you have the audacity to call Ian a poor wordsmith? How very ironic. It was as ridiculous as your assertion that you “don’t come on here very often” – a statement you made after talking about reading Ian’s comments over the last 9 months. D’oh. Ian ferguson January 14, 2013 DAVIEC 1872: Reread my comments. My disappointment is about the fact that the SFA, SPL & SFL ALL cheated to help RFC(IL) & later Sevco & that the ex RFC(IL) who transferred over to Sevco, later renamed THE Rangers, are not at all grateful for all the help given to them. I said that I continually read that THE Rangers are going to enjoy the trip through the Leagues…. But then the reality has been threats, Boycotts, denial & whataboutery. I have read about the world breaking crowds & how much money THE Rangers have & have compared the known facts of the Celtic v THE Rangers income streams & have said that, in my opinion THE Rangers are falling further behind. I also said that Green has habitually brought his Club into disrepute but is getting so mundane that he is now bringing THE Rangers into ridicule. What is bigoted about that? daviec1872 January 15, 2013 I’ll reply in the order of response above. Ann ….Calm down dear. A title is a title. What is the next number after 54? (I think I’ll give you a few days on that one) Let me know once you have it figured. Pride ans whatever…. We ARE literally a League apart from Cellik SPL as opposed to SFL. What is wrong in that statement? BTW I do only look in here occasionally , once a week is more than enough to see that the content from tyhe likes of Ian F has remained virtually unchange in the past 9 months. It was drivel then and remains so now. Ian, Read the statement made by Rangers to the London Sock Exchange prior to flotation regarding the Clubs, unbroken History. If you think it is in any way untrue I would suggest you report Rangers to the Police for fraud immediately. Otherwise give us peace from your unsubstantiated nonsense. Ann January 15, 2013 Daviec1872 I really do hope you don’t speak to your granny like that, if you do she should give you a good clip round the ear, sock exchange davie ? oh there I go off on another tangent. By the way the the answer doesn’t change, has been and always be 1, one, un, uno, unus, eins,ena, yeden. In anybody’s language. PrideAndNoPrejudice January 15, 2013 What is wrong in that statement? Cellik for a start. I don’t believe there is a Cellik in Scotland any more. Why bring yourself down like that with the daft names? Why not just call us Celtic? Fair enough, you didn’t call us Septic or whatever like some do, but it is pathetic, childish and tedious (and for the record I think exactly the same of those who use names like Rankers etc). Let’s keep it adult eh? daviec1873 January 15, 2013 Ann… Don’t you worry about my Granny She’s smart enough to know facts and figures unlike you. She knows the number after 54. Do you? Anyway let me know when you figure it out. Ann January 15, 2013 Never said I was smart daviec,watch and learn dear boy, the answer doesn’t change even if you ignore it. 1, one, un, uno, unus, eins, ena, yeden. Figure doesn’t change if you choose to ignore it.