Fran Sandaza interview opens up old wounds of Sectarianism at Rangers Editor December 30, 2012 Fans, Rangers, Sectarianism 298 Comments Sectarianism reared its ugly head once more this week when Rangers striker Francisco Sandaza told Spanish paper AS that he was advised not to cross himself before matches. He was quoted as saying: “Am I a Catholic? I’m not talking about that. Is it strange to play for a Protestant club? That is not something football should be concerned about. But on my first day I was advised not to cross myself before matches. “It’s not a subject that worries me too much. I’m at Rangers, a historic club and one that will return to the highest level very soon.” Despite the Spaniard’s claims, Rangers denied that they had influenced Sandaza to not bless himself, an Ibrox source told the Daily Record: “It has never been the club’s policy to advise players on this type of thing and it never will be.” While it may not sound a huge deal to outsiders, the fact that a current Rangers player has stated that he was told not to bless himself before matches opens the old wounds of sectarianism at Rangers Football Club. Rangers’ sectarian signing policy “Historically Rangers have maintained a staunch Protestant and anti-Catholic tradition which includes a ban on signing Catholic players.” – Giulanotti, R., 1999: Football: A Sociology of the Global Game. It is a well-known fact that Rangers had an anti-catholic signing policy and burst into public view in the 1960s. Speaking in 1967, then vice chairman of Rangers Matt Taylor was asked of the club’ no Catholic signing policy, he was quoted as saying that the policy was ‘part of our tradition….we were formed in 1873 as a Protestant boys club. To change now would lose us considerable support’. Of course there were Catholics at the club, as Ibrox club records tell us, but no high-profile ones until Maurice Johnston signed for the club in 1989. Before the end of World War One, Rangers had Pat Lafferty (1886), Tom Dunbar (1891–1892), J Tutty (1899–1900), Archie Kyle (1904–1908), Willie Kivlichan (1906–1907), Colin Mainds (1906–1907), Tom Murray (1907–1908), William Brown (1912), Joe Donnachie (circa.1914–1918) and John Jackson (1917) at the club. And prior to Johnston’s signing the club had Laurie Blyth (1951–1952), Don Kitchenbrand (1955–1956), Hugh O’Neill (1976) and John Spencer (1985–1992). Between 1872 and 1989, a total of 117 years, Rangers only had fourteen Catholics on the books and together they amassed around 25 years of service to the Ibrox side. In fact John Spencer was the longest serving Catholic on the books at Rangers, with the others amassing a mere year here or year there before his signing in 1985. The signing that changed Rangers’ signing policy “When I came here in 1964, we had no Catholics. Not just the playing staff, anywhere. There was no bit of paper, it was an unwritten rule. David Murray changed that and it moved on significantly in 1989 when Maurice Johnston signed. You cannot clear up 80 years of sectarianism in eight months, but we are a huge way down the road.” - Sandy Jardine The signing of Mo Johnston by then Rangers gaffer Graeme Souness and then owner David Murray shocked Scottish Football to its core. First they had signed a former Celtic striker at the 11th hour under the noses of Celtic and he became the first high-profile Catholic signing the club made. That break with ‘tradition’ made headlines across Britain, but his signing did not sit well with both sides of the divide. “We signed him [Johnston] as a football player firstly, and also to break the tradition of this club in not signing a Roman Catholic. That was wrong.” - David Murray There is no denying the abuse, the threats and the hate that Johnston received at the hands of Celtic fans following his move to their arch rivals and to this day he is still labelled Judas by many Celtic supporters, but he also received abuse and threats from his new club’s supporters. Former General Secretary of the Rangers Supporters Association, David Millar, was quoted on the Johnston signing, he admitted: “I never thought in my wildest dreams that they would sign him. Why him above all? It’s a sad day for Rangers. There will be a lot of people handing in their season tickets. I don’t want to see a Roman Catholic at Ibrox. Rangers have always stood for one thing and the biggest majority of the support have been brought up with the idea of a true blue Rangers team. I thought they would sign a Catholic eventually, perhaps in three or four years time, but someone from the continent.” A pretty damning statement from the representative from one of the club’s official fan organisations. If that was not bad enough, Rangers legend Terry Butcher stated in his autobiography that the newly signed striker was treated as an outcast by his Scottish team mates at Ibrox. Butcher explained: “It was [signing Johnston], as far as I was concerned, a fabulous signing for the club because Mo was such a good player, while Souness had achieved his ambition of beginning to break down the sectarian barriers at Ibrox. Our only doubt was we knew Mo was fiercely proud of being a Celtic fan and we wondered how he would settle. We need not have worried – he was terrific. “Next day, the club wanted the Scottish and English players to hold a press conference to tell the media what a good signing he was. There was no problem as far as Ray Wilkins, Chris Woods, Mark Walters, I and some others were concerned. But the Scottish players – Davie Cooper, Ian Ferguson, Ally McCoist, John Brown and the rest – declined because they had received so many calls from friends telling them not to become involved.” So Butcher outed the now Rangers manager Ally McCoist, as one of many players who took advice not to support a new team-mate because of his religion? Rangers kitman Jimmy Bell, who is still at the club in the same capacity, also persecuted Johnston because of his religion. According to Butcher, Bell refused to leave Johnston’s training kit outside his hotel room during an Italian pre-season tour, yet he did with every other player. Butcher added: “Jimmy Bell didn’t want to become involved at all. Mo roomed with Ally McCoist, as he had done for the national team, and it was Jimmy’s practice to put fresh kit outside everyone’s room for the next day. But he refused to do so for Mo, just leaving Ally’s, forcing Mo to go down three flights of stairs to the kit room to fetch his gear. Mo did so stoically and without complaint. In fact, in the end he made a joke about it. “But this was a complete upheaval for the club. Even at meal-times there were a number of Scots who would not sit with him. What had happened to the moral high ground claimed by Rangers? They always used to say it was Celtic who were intolerant and unable to cope with the mixing of religions. Wrong.” But not all at Ibrox would treat Johnston as an outcast, as a stain. In those early days, the English players treated Johnston the way he should have been treated – as a footballer – a signing that would go on to score 46 goals in 100 appearances over the course of two seasons at Ibrox before he left for Everton. Butcher said: “There were no such difficulties for the English players, of course. All we knew was that we had signed a good player who was going to help us retain our title. Fellow countryman Ray Wilkins, also commented on the hatred of Catholics by Rangers players, speaking in a 2007 ESPN documentary, Wilkins said: “I’d just come from Italy and France which are catholic countries, very warm and friendly and here I was in Glasgow with some of my (Rangers) team-mates hating catholics. I just couldn’t understand it and frankly found it ridiculous.” Karaoke king Donald Findlay QC The anti-Catholic stance at Ibrox was not limited to players or fans, but to board room level also as the previous comment from vice chairman of Rangers Matt Taylor testified too. But that high level of anti-catholic rhetoric was to become even more public when vice chairman Donald Findlay QC decided to attend a supporters night in 1999. During a time when chairman and owner David Murray was trying to ride the Ibrox side of sectarianism, the ublication of footage of Findlay singing anti-Catholic songs was like a kick in the teeth to the supremo. Findlay later handed in his resignation, not before he took a swipe at the fan who went to the press with the footage. Since that day, Findlay has represented a number of high-profile Rangers supporters who have fallen foul of Scotland’s justice system. He argued that William Walls’ singing of the racist Famine song was merely him exercising his right to free speech. He also represented Neil McKenzie who along with Trevor Muirhead were jailed for five years each after being found guilty of conspiracy to assault Mr Lennon, former MSP Trish Godman and the late Paul McBride QC. Both are currently appealing their convictions. He also defended convicted killer Jason Campbell in court for slitting Celtic fan Mark Scott’s throat and murdering him after a match. An act that led to the creation of anti-sectarian charity Nil by Mouth. Blessing yourself is not a crime Polish keeper Artur Boruc was cautioned by Police following an accusation of making gestures during a Glasgow derby game. The Pole who was a controversial character in Scottish Football was a Catholic and before every game and just before the second half of every game, the keeper would turn to his goals and bless himself. A gesture, an act that he did at every club he played for, at every ground he played at and every country he was in. But only in the West of Scotland would blessing yourself at a football match would warrant a caution. A crown office spokesperson explained at the time that Boruc’s actions ‘included a combination of behaviour before a crowd in the charged atmosphere of an Old Firm match’. It was deemed that his blessing of himself had ‘provoked alarm and crowd trouble’. The decision to caution the Pole was met with fierce criticism from the Roman Catholic Church in Scotland, which claimed that Boruc had been cautioned for the act of blessing himself. Peter Kearney, spokesman for the Catholic Church, said: “It’s a worrying and alarming development, especially since the sign of the cross is globally accepted as a gesture of religious reverence. It’s also very common in international football and was commonplace throughout the World Cup. “It is extremely regrettable that Scotland seems to have made itself one of the few countries in the world where this simply religious gesture is considered an offence.” But a second statement from the Crown Office stated: “The decision to use an alternative to prosecution in this case was based on an assessment of behaviour, not one single act, which appeared to be directed towards the crowd, which was being incited by that behaviour and which caused the police to intervene and calm the crowd.” Steady stream of Catholic footballers Rangers, since the signing of Mo Johnston, have signed Catholics from the continent but other than Johnston, the only other Scottish player that has been Catholic was Neil McCann. Former Rangers player and US international Claudio Reyna claimed that McCann was subjected to sectarian abuse at the hands of Rangers fans. The Ibrox side also had Gabriel Amato, Lorenzo Amoruso, Mikel Arteta and Jorg Albertz graced their jersey and the latter three became club legends, but they were still told not to bless themselves – reminiscent of Sandaza’s claims. Georgian striker Shota Arveladze was booed and jeered by Rangers and Linfield fans in a friendly after blessing himself. And former Rangers super sub Nacho Novo was assaulted by a Rangers fan for reportedly wearing a crucifix on a night out in Greenock. Who advised Sandaza? Is Sandaza lying about being advised not to bless himself? The club is adamant they did not tell him. If they didn’t then who did? McCoist – Despite previously taking advice on the Johnston signing, I cannot see the Rangers manager being the man to advise a player not to bless himself. McCulloch – The Rangers skipper knows how the club and the fans tick. It is his job as captain to lead by example, to take new players under his wing and to show them what playing for Rangers is all about. He is a possible adviser. Jimmy Bell – The Rangers kitman has previous with his ‘actions’ with Mo Johnston, but would a player listen to a mere kitman? Well he is described by some Rangers fans as part of the Ibrox furniture, an institution within an institution. Maybe his word does carry salt after all. Another possible adviser. Rangers team mates – Could some of his fellow team mates have taken him aside and told him not to bless himself for fear of abuse? Possibly. Given that Sandaza did not state who counselled him in the art of being a Rangers player, it is all guesswork in regards to who the culprit is. But several things are clear – what would Sandaza have to gain by claiming he was told not to bless himself and despite all the hard work done by anti-sectarian initiatives at the club, someone is still of the opinion that openly practising your faith in front of Rangers fans is a step too far. Of course there are many decent Rangers fans who don’t care one iota about religion or if a player blesses themselves, but this decent section of the Rangers support will forever be overshadowed by those who spout bile, who peddle hate and who believe that they are upholding the traditions of the club. Will Rangers ask Sandaza who counselled him? Will Rangers hold that adviser accountable? Blessing yourself is not a crime…. but Sectarianism is. 298 Responses Stevie December 30, 2012 Thank goodness this institution died. I expect many reports in the Mankie rags covering this disgrace. Hopefully the Newco fans can move on. What I’m I talking about this is about Newco, their taking things to the extreme trying to convince everyone that their the same club. Where are all the good Newco fans condemning this club policy or is policy taking it to far. I’m sure Mr Green will have an opinion on this matter. I totally expect this to be ignored by the Scottish media. I mean their was 5 arrests at Dundee to talk about, 4 of them Celtic supporters. Mark December 30, 2012 Who or what’s a ‘Mankie rag’ Stevie? Stevie December 30, 2012 A Scottish tabloid, those papers that cover-up the Newco is Oldco story. The type of paper that doesn’t care about the truth only about pandering to its readership. It’s a well known fact a positive Newco/Oldco story or anti Celtic story increases their circulation. Mark December 30, 2012 Interesting. & I’m not saying its wrong but do you have facts to back it up? As Andy himself responded to another poster- “a highly generalised statement without knowing the facts”. What’s good for the goose… Stevie December 30, 2012 If its evidence you require The laptop loyal diaries 1 and 2. Jammed packed with factual facts on the bias shown towards Celtic. Mark December 30, 2012 Not familiar with them Stevie. Perhaps you could provide a link? What is it they say? Put up or shut up? Stevie December 30, 2012 Do an Internet search I’m sure you’ll manage to find them. The does hurt at times. Mark December 30, 2012 They call it the World Wide Web Stevie. Do me and everyone else a favour and post the direct link. Backs up your facts & makes the doubters look like complete twats! So… How about it? Stevie December 30, 2012 Thanks for the advice on the WWW if you can’t find then practice. Mark December 30, 2012 Thanks Stevie but do you think reason can’t find it is because it doesn’t exist? Making things up to get others into trouble. Naughty, naughty! Stevie December 30, 2012 Good try. I’ll give you a few clues No 1 it’s a book and follow up book. No 2 sold by lulu.com. Need to apologise. Mark December 30, 2012 Hardly accessible on Internet if being sold by an online retailer. Not sure how it ties into your ‘Mankie rag’ statement but I’m sure you’ll enlighten me some more! Stevie December 30, 2012 No need for further conversation. After your bullying tactics towards females. Ignored. Mark December 30, 2012 Actually, scrap that last comment. Googled it myself! You had the cheek to slag me off on another thread about Leggat yet this guy is almost a Celtic version of him. Classic! So long as you believe it that’s all that matters. That way there will be a volume 3 & the guy will really be coining it in. Serious question here Stevie, when Leggat spouts his crap about the the newspapers agenda against Rangers what’s the difference? He can provide facts- can take it anyway you want but he does provide facts- these eats Hamilton does. Therefore is one author correct & the other wrong? My opinion? Both feed the narrow minds that follow each team & exacerbate any problems there are. Seriously, you buy the local Glasgow paper (or even look online) & they’ve a designated section on Celtic, another on Rangers & everyone else comes under ‘Other Sport’. Should I be paranoid that te newspapers not mention Clyde more than once a week? Lot of nonsense! Stevie December 30, 2012 You’d make a good detective. Knowing the truth without seeing the evidence. Says more about you. That and the bullying. Mark December 31, 2012 Very chivalrous of you Stevie. Way I see it is this, Annie doesn’t like the bullying being returned but big up you being so noble. I just think you’re a bigger bigot than her that’s afraid to answer questions as you know you’ll dig yourself a deeper hole. Deny & deflect Stevie. Keep at it because you’re still not fooling many! Mark December 31, 2012 & as for evidence, that’ll be same evidence year man Leggat can produce. Twisted to suit whatever agenda. Simple things for simple minds I think the saying is. Classic Joey December 30, 2012 Wow, One ambiguous line from Sandaza (it could have been one of the dinner ladies at Murray Park for all that “I was advised on my first day” quote tells us)… ..and you splurge out this cyber-diarrohea of past sectarian incidents re. Rangers. …all whilst maintaining the charade to your bigoted Celtc pals that the perpetrating club of said “crimes” no longer exists! I cant decide whether this sense/logic-defying obsessional hatred of Rangers you exhibit amuses me or disturbs me. Will get back to you on that one. Either way, it’s not healthy (demonstrably so!). Andy Muirhead December 30, 2012 Merely providing the back story Joey and is wholly relevant to the quote from Sandaza. Joey December 30, 2012 There is no story to provide a back story to! SOMEONE has advised Sandaza not to cross himself – but who?? A taxi driver? A bloke at the gate asking for an autograph? The Chairman? The tea lady? Frankly, until that question is answered, no self-respecting/half-decent/responsible journalist would dream of implicating Rangers Football Club in something there’s NO EVIDENCE a club employee or player had anything to do with. But… This is Andy Muirhead, and he’s works from an altogether different agenda, one based on hate rather than balance/fairness. Ann December 30, 2012 Can I just say Andy well done for opening up the can of worms, that most on here will now go tit for tat with, Because it didn’t”happen”because Celtic had that “same policy”, shame they probably won’t even touch on the greatest man of all,Jock Stein. And shock horror mark, a moderator on this site, he doesn’t do much moderating on himself does he, hence the reason I won’t be replying to anything he has to say on this, and I know you are going to take more abuse than usual, if that is at all possible. Mark December 31, 2012 Annie! You disappoint me. You’ve been going for 3 days & reply to everything else so why not this? I’ll just say this. Sevco fans will be on going fit for tat as Andy hasn’t mentioned the pro IRA singing at Dens. If you don’t present a balanced view then you leave yourself open to criticism. However by doing so it means more hits for Andy’s site though & easier for him to then attract sponsors/ advertisers to the site. Stumbled across the site by accident a few weeks back & can honestly say that it is most definitely a case of 2 cheeks of the same @rse. Aka Old Firm. No hits or comments on the majority of other articles on the site but something controversial like trouble at Dens or Sectarian singing at Hampden then it’s all-in. Clever. wilkins' screamer December 30, 2012 what r u talking about Mr Muirhead? religion i.e. crossing oneself,has nothing to do with football. also,the stuff about super mo Johnston etc happened at a totally different club of course.you can’t have it both ways. innocent till proven innocent. more than a name. SnakeHips December 30, 2012 You’re correct, crossing yourself has nothing to do with football. It does, however, have everything to do with an individual’s religious beliefs and their right to turn to those beliefs when they feel it necessary, whenever that may be. To be insulted by someone crossing themself is to demonstrate to everyone sheer small-mindedness and ignorance. Boruc didn’t just cross himself on that one occasion. He did it every game without fail, so clearly wasn’t doing to to offend. The person responsible to cautioning him should’ve been reprimanded for his sheer stupidity alone. Stevie December 30, 2012 Joey cut to the chase just say it. Please don’t Print, blog, or even mention anti Newco/Oldco stories. Obsessed in Denial. With the rise of the Internet stories can’t be suppressed as easily as was once the case Joey December 30, 2012 Censorship is no fun. Ridiculing the stupidity of bigots and fools, such as all that “new club” nonsense, is the best way of exposing it for what it is. nemesis December 30, 2012 YOUR ARTICLE SECTARIAN! YOU HAVE NOT MENTIONED CELTIC’S SECTARIAN POLICY. THEY COULD NOT SIGN EXCLUSIVELY CATHOLICS ON THEIR TEAM BECAUSE OF THE SIGNIFICANTLY SMALLER CATHOLIC POPULATION – FOR, IF THEY HAD DONE SO, THEY WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN COMPETITIVE. THIS WAS WHY THEY SIGNED PROTESTANTS AND NOT BECAUSE, AS BIGOTS LIKE YOURSELF CLAIM – FOR ETHICS OR MORAL REASONS. THEREFORE THEY HAD TO SIGN PROTESTANTS PLAYERS. CELTIC WERE, ARE, AND ALWAYS WILL BE SECTARIAN AS EVRY PERSON INSCOTLAND KNOWS. WHILE THEY HAD TO SIGN PRODDIES TO BE COMPETITIVE, THEY COULD STILL MAINTAIN THEIR CATHOLIC SECTARIANISM ON THE BOARD AS YOU WELL KNOW, AND FAILED TO MENTION BECAUSE OF YOUR BLATANT BIGOTRY. IF IT WERE OTHERWISE THEN THE GREATEST MANAGER IN YOUR HISTORY WOULD AHVE BEEN ON THE BOARD – BUT HE WASN’T WAS HE! AND WHY? – SIMPLY BECAUSE HE WAS A PROTESTANT, RIGHT! YOU TALK ABOUT FINLAY. YET FAIL TO MENTION LENNON AND HIS DRUNKEN IRA SING SONGS ON YOUTUBE. AND HIS ORANGE B******S COMMENTS. YOU TRYING TO TELL THE WORLD LENON HAS NEVER OR DOESN’T SING SECTARIAN SONGS IN PRIVATE? AYE, RIGHT! YOU TALK ABOUT BORUC WHO IS AS FAR FROM A PRACTICING CATHOLIC AS YOU CAN GET – WHO SHAMELESSLY AND DISGRACEFULLY CROSSED HIMSELF FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF WINDING UP RANGERS SUPPORTERS. YOU ALSO FAILED TO MENTION THAT THE POLICE ALSO WARNED GAZZA ABOUT PLAYING THE FLUTE. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE. BOTH ARE SECATARIAN ACTS. YET HYPOCRITES LIKE YOURSELF ARE THE FIRST TO GREET AND COMPLAIN. ALL RELIGIOUS PRACTICES – CHRISTIAN, BUDDHIST, MUSLIM …BY PLAYERS SHOULD BE, AND SOON WILL BE, BANNED AND ANY PLAYER WHO CROSSES HIMSELF ON THE PITCH SHOULD AND ONE DAY WILL RECEIVE AN AUTOMATIC RED CARD. WE LIVE IN A GLOBAL COMMUNITY TODAY. THERE IS NO PLACE FOR RELIGION DURING A SPORTING CONTEST. THUS ALL RELIGIOUS RITUAL SHOULD BE DONE PRIVATELY IN THE DRESSING ROOM PRIOR TO THE GAME. NOT ON THE FIELD. IT’S A SPORT FFS. BUT YOU HAVE TO LAUGH AT BIGOTED CLOWNS LIKE YOURSELF WHO ARE GREETIN AT SANDAZA NOT ALLOWED TO CROSS HIMSELF, YET, YOU ARE THE FIRST TO SQUEAL AND COMPLAIN ABOUT GAZZA BLOWING A PRODDY FLUTE! GROW UP, MAN UP AND GET A LIFE YA TWO FACED W***ER! Andy Muirhead December 30, 2012 Why would I greet over Sandaza not allowed to cross himself? Are you trying to state that I am Catholic? I wil let you into a secret I am not. Never have been never will. I have never even been christened. So you want all players who cross themselves on the pitch sent off – if that is not bigoted then I don’t know what is. Btw why would I mention Celtic in this article? After all it is an article about Rangers and its player is it not? Where in the article denotes me as a bigot or do you not know the definition of the word and just throw it about because you dont like hearing the truth? Then you claim that Lennon sings IRA songs in private – how would you know that? No one would know that unless they were in the presence of Lennon. Or maybe you are just peddling lies to try and bolster your whataboutery defence. Boruc – shamelessly and disgracefully crossed himself for the sole purpose of winding up Rangers fans? You will find that in EVERY game he played for he blesses himself as mentioned in the article. It was a regular thing for Boruc to do at the start of each half not a means to wind up Rangers fans – if they have a problem with it then it is those Rangers fans who are the problem not Boruc. So Celtic did not exclusively sign Catholics because of the small population in Scotland? So they signed Protestants as well. Of course they did because there was no sectarian policy at Celtic. In terms of no Protestant holding directorship at the club, you will find that the owners up until McCann came in were predominantly from two families and they just happened to be Catholic. Jock Stein was not denied a place on the board because of his religion, if that was the case then he would never have got the manager’s job in the first place if the board were so anti-protestant. Stein wanted to continue managing and he had also rejected the offer of heading up the Celtic Pools as well. My article is Sectarian? You have still to point out what is sectarian and bigoted about reporting the facts? In fact the only one that is clearly sectarian is yourself nemesis and it is clear as day. Mark December 30, 2012 Andy, that was a fair & balanced response tolets face it, was a rant with nothing really to back up anything. However, the last paragraph you say to the ranter, “What is Sectarian and bigoted about reporting the facts?’ Am i missing something or on the other thread is that not what I’ve done to Ian/Annie/Stevie but been called exactly that? Be interested in your opinion. Andy Muirhead December 30, 2012 The phrase bigot or bigoted is thrown about too much in my opinion, by many who do not understand the definition of the word or believe they think they do to suit their own side of things and to discredit their opponent’s opinion. In terms of what has been said to you Mark in all honesty I would have to read it all again as I’ve not managed to read through all said comments. Mark December 30, 2012 As moderator of this site I find that incredulous. However, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt & invite you to read through the thread & replies given & give me your thoughts Thanks. Andy Muirhead December 30, 2012 For most long-winded pieces Mark I skim read them if I don’t have the time for anything that is sectarian, racist, threatening etc. For the most part its swings and roundabouts with some commenters stating the same thing over and over again. But I will get round to reading the specific comments. Joey December 30, 2012 Oxford Dictionaries defines bigotry as “intolerance towards those who hold different opinions from oneself” In my view the word isn’t used enough. Ann December 31, 2012 You wanted comments markie boy an even worse bigot and bully than originally thought, but never you mind just you run to the moderator to shut that bad Ann/Stevie up be Ann December 31, 2012 Want a comment markie ok then, find it very strange how the bigot and bully, runs to the moderator on the site to complain and I use the word lightly there,when he is the bully and bigot, why not question nae fear,trueblue,and numerous others on here markie boy, something to do with them having the same opinions as yourself jog on markie when I see the same treatment given to them, then I may have a proper discussion with the likes of you,yes I hope I have hurt you to the quick and you are now in your wee room having to dry your eyes Mark December 31, 2012 Don’t run to anyone Annie. Not my style to go in a cream puff & have a petted lip to trip over. Was,eerily asking the moderator for his opinion (as a Celtic fan as much as site editor/moderator) to the difference between my comments against yours, Stevie’s or Ian/Phil’s. Don’t see much difference myself but you obviously want to be a bully so I’ll take it! Oh, forgot, you’re (spelling) not talking to me! David December 30, 2012 Wow. matthew December 30, 2012 What an idiot you are. Celtic are and never have been a sectarian club. Please turn off yours caps lock as it makes you look deranged. ProVwan December 30, 2012 “Celtic are and never have been a sectarian club.” Please make up your mind. Either they are or they were. matthew December 30, 2012 Our greatest ever celt was big jock. We dont care about religion when signing a player. Your club was forced to abandon its signing policy as UEFA was about it to throw you out of europe. Old Rangers and now new rangers continue to be a cancer in Scottish society. Del December 31, 2012 Thats right, Celtic were never a sectarian club. They were however founded on the grounds of religion to keep those young catholic boys away from the big bad proddies. The also operated without a non roman catholic director in the boardroom for some 110 years. The policy so ingrained that it seen arguably their greatest ever manager denied a seat on the board and instead offered a job with Celtic pools. On the subject of signing RC’s is it not strange that Mo Johnston cannot return to these shores for fear of attack by one section of the community? Neil McCann, another local bhoy who signed and excelled for the Rangers is not too popular with the Celtic faithful (no laughing at the back). Toodle pip Andy Muirhead December 31, 2012 Del wasnt John Thomson’s father in law offered a seat on the Celtic board in the 1930s? He was Protestant was he not? Ann December 31, 2012 Lets not let facts get in the way andy Del December 31, 2012 Maybe Thompson’s father in law was offered but for whatever reason turned it down. The real question I am looking for an answer on (not another question) is why was Jock Stein refused a seat on the board? This great servant to the club (arguably the greatest)was offered a management position within the Celtic Pools. Why no directors position? Why no other non Roman Catholic directors for 110 years? Maybe there was never one good enough (wait … big Jock was good enough). The truth is Big Jock kicked with th wrong foot. Simples. What was it they used to call Tommy Gemmell in the dressing room? Thats right, a big orange b**tard (Tommy’s own words) If you knew YOUR history Andy Muirhead December 31, 2012 Stein wanted to continue in management Del did he not? Stevie December 31, 2012 Typical Sevco deflection. You must have done it as well. Only one club forced by UEFA to stop their illegal signing policy. SMSM must have missed it. Shame on Oldco Shame on Newco Shame on Scotland Shame on SMSM Del December 31, 2012 Whoops Andy, Despite my request not to, you once again answered a question with another question. Why no offer of a seat on the board for Stein? Why the alternative offer which he saw quite rightly as grossly insulting regardless of what path he wanted to follow in life? 110 years and not one non Roman Catholic on the board. Give me one single reason why anyone anywhere would believe Celtic were a club open to all when they could only draw a director from circa 10% – 14% of the population? Founded by religious men, for religious purposes and those religious threads are still sewn firmly into their whole sorry existence. Mo Johnston? No response on what section of the community force him into an almost certain exile from the country of his birth. Paul Le Guen – A Roman Catholic manager of Rangers FC was only ever assaulted by one section of the community when certain reptiles saw fit to donate bodily fluids towards him. Not exclusive to PLG as Ian Wright and Berkovic (sp?) also called out a similar situation when leaving Celtic Park after defeat to Caley in the cup. Reptiles I think was his descriptive phrase too. Don’t even get me started on the most shameful racist event ever to take place at any sporting arena, anywhere in the UK at any time in history. Toodle Pip. Ann January 1, 2013 Del You really should be asking the Kelly dynasty at the time who controlled the board like an iron fist,friends and family only. I know you want me to say it was because he was a protestant sorry to disappoint, sheer old nepotism. And as everyone else on this site does it answer me this, why did Mr. Stein never receive a knighthood ? Couldn’t possibly have been because he had jumped the dyke and with a great deal of success. And Del I have never seen so many people of both religions that held Mr.Stein as the most refreshing man to ever play for and manage club and country. Del January 1, 2013 Ann, 110 years of nepotism, and you believe that. As for the knighthood, two points here. 1. Why expect the state to honour a guy who was overlooked by his own club who never held him in enough regard to offer him a directorship due to (ahem) nepotism. 2. Why was Jimmy Savile knighted if religion was a big factor? In fact the rancid old beast was knighted twice but that’s for another debate. Now back to the difficult questions you and the bold Andy are ignoring. I will keep it simple. Why are Roman Catholics who represented Rangers over the last 25 years seen as public enemies of Roman Catholic community in the West Of Scotland? You harp on about a signing policy yet when things move on your support wage war on anyone who dare “jump the dyke” (your words I think Anne:-) ) Andy Muirhead January 1, 2013 In terms of Jock Stein not receiving a knighthood it is split into two reasons – back in the 1960s the major factor was the class divide when it came to honours unlike now when every tom, dick and harry can get one. As we all know Stein was working class and the stuffed shirts on the honours committee and the Westminster government were against giving a mere working class person such a top honour. However, when Celtic won the 1967 European Cup the amount of people from across the country called on Stein to be honoured – a call that could not be ignored by mere class divide. BUT, they jumped on an easy excuse to deny Stein a knighthood – the trouble that ensued between Celtic and Racing – Montivideo 1967. However, Matt Busby, another working class man did receive a knighthood after the 1968 Manchester United success. BUT, Busby – unlike Stein – was more than willing to forget his roots [with all respect to the legendary manager]. He brown nosed the hoighty toightys in England, something that Stein never did. FROM SUNDAY HERALD: “Suspicions that legendary Celtic manager Jock Stein was denied a knighthood because of Whitehall snobbery were confirmed yesterday. Secret files earmarked for release tomorrow under the 30-year rule show Stein was passed over for honours between 1967 and 1970 because he “was not the right sort”. Stein was nominated for an award by Willie Ross, Scottish Secretary, in 1967 – the year Stein led the Lisbon Lions to European Cup victory. The secret file reveals Cabinet Office officials blocked the award. Shortly after the European triumph Bill Shankly, then manager of Liverpool, said: “They should knight Jock Stein here and now. No, a knighthood is not enough it’s got to be Lord Stein of Parkhead.” Stein, who died in 1985, was eventually awarded the CBE, although that compared badly with the knighthood given to Matt Busby in 1968 after Manchester United won the European Cup. It has long been suspected that Whitehall was behind the blocking of Stein’s knighthood. Scotland Office Minister Brian Wilson told our sister paper, The Herald, on December 15: “I don’t think you need to read the files to know that [why Stein did not get his knighthood]. As ever with the honours system the mandarins were falling over themselves to honour Celtic chairman Bob Kelly, but not Jock Stein.” They gave Bob Kelly a knighthood, yet it was Stein who masterminded the Lisbon victory. Kelly was one of ‘them’ unlike Stein. The snub of a knighthood didn’t bother Stein though. Ann January 1, 2013 Andy Sorry I can’t even answer del directly, when or why has saville been mentioned ?, try to enlighten the unenlightened,and they revert to a man that couldn’t tie Jock Steins shoe laces or go down the protestant route Andy Muirhead January 1, 2013 Ann they use Saville just like they use Torbett’s name as a means to an end to try and shame Celtic FC over the child abuse that Torbett committed while he was part of Celtic Boys Club. It is a way to try and shut Celtic fans up as they have no other means of shutting them up when they lose a debate or cannot argue a point constructively. The majority of those who peddle the child abuse are cretins, they use it to denote how they are not linked to a club that had someone perpetrating that disgusting crime, but the majority do not take that ‘crusading’ mentality to actually tackle the crime in society. They don’t donate to childline, they don’t donate to Children’s 1st and they certainly don’t donate their time to help those who have been the victim of said crimes. http://www.scotzine.com/2012/12/child-abuse-is-not-something-to-use-as-a-tool-to-beat-rivals-with-in-football-rivalry/ Ann January 1, 2013 Well Andy markie has had a go again and as I won’t reply to him i will ask why del is being my target,this is the man who brought up saville completely out of context and markie obviously can’t comprehend why child abuse is being brought into the conversation by either one of us. He tries to make out he is a proper grown up, having my doubts now, sorry just had to get that off my chest. Del January 2, 2013 Anne / Andy, A wee bit touchy on the Savile bit there. I was not going to mention the biggest sporting scandal in British history but, hypotheticly speaking of course, had Stein been awarded a knighthood would you have objected if it had laterly been withdrawn? I am sure you were keen to see Sir David Murray’s rescinded, only problem is he was found to be correct in his “operating” of the scheme. PS Still waiting on an update on the treatment of RC’s at Rangers over the last 25 years. Del January 2, 2013 The snub of a knighthood did not bother Stein. Well that maybe. But the snub of a directorship stung like mad In the eyes of some at the club he was seen when you scratched away the surface to be exactly the same as Tommy Gemmell. Now for a non club that operated in an “open to all” culture can you honestly say hand on heart that religion never came into the lack of directorship offer to most importantly Jock Stein or any other non RC in 110 years. Maybe they just never found one good enough Pip Pip PS was he excluded from a Papal Knighthood too on religious grounds or was that snobbery too? Ann January 2, 2013 As I’ve said before del tit for tat, I tried to answer your question reasonably and all of a sudden because I won’t conform to your opinion of it was because he was a protestant, up jumps saville from nowhere ? You really should cop yourself on, just because you like to try to tarnish Mr Stein with the big “lie” you bring saville into the equation, you really are a sick puppy, look how big the news was at sevco when news broke about mo johnston that’s how big the fact was about sevcos signing policy. thecornerflag January 4, 2013 You’re forgetting Jock Stein was offered a directorship. Being in charge of Celtic Pools was a directorship. Just so you know and don’t embarrass yourself by claiming he wasn’t. sands1888 December 30, 2012 Shut up you smellyvbenefit cheat rangers fan December 30, 2012 Hi Sorry but was Sebastian Rosenthal not shown a straight red card for blessing himself during an old firm game and the ref said it was given for him insighting violence. I’m sure it was his first old firm game and came on as a sub, not 100% but im sure that’s what happened, anyway same club new holding company which bought the assets of old rangers company, if it was the same company that Craig White bought from SDM then he would have owned ALL of Murray International Holdings as it was they who owned Rangers prior to the sale to Craig White. C White bought the shares in rangers from SDM. WATP angers then, now ,forever ever Caroline February 25, 2013 Celtic could av signed Catholics from abroad. So pls put that 2 Bed. Does it really bother u that much that Catholics bless there selfs? Maybe Rangers should say sorry 4 there no sighing catholic policy. If they still had it they wouldn’t be allowed 2 play Football as Uefa would ban them. As a catholic a couldn’t care less what other peoples religion is or who plays at Paradise or the colour of there Skin. Celtic were formed 4 charity 2 fed the hungry & needy of the east end regardless of Faith. Maybe Rangers should also say sorry 2 the whole of Brittain 4 flying the Swastika at Ibroks during a friendly in 1936 between Scotland & Germany. Hamden was being refurbished at time. Mind u we all now the Nazis were haters of people’s Faiths IE the Jews. Can’t u just life & let life. After all u come from Catholics. Do un 2 others as u would av done in 2 u 1 of the commandments handed down 2 Moses Dwelsh December 30, 2012 I have never felt the need to comment on some of your clearly bigoted and blinded blogs before, but this must truely be your lowest moment. Tell me this how many prodestants have held a directorship at Celtic? A club born out of nothing other than secteranism that’s the facts pal and no one can deny that. David December 30, 2012 Where do we start with the guy spells Protestant as “Prodestant”…. Simply embarrassing. Alan December 30, 2012 Before slagging off the grammar of someone else maybe you should have read your message through again first, at least his could have been a typo, simply embarrassing !! Caroline February 25, 2013 Leave them 2 it. There blood is catholic. They will always be ignorant & arrogant people at both clubs. But Celtic Fans are warmly welcomed abroad. When Rangers go abroad Ur sure 2 get a riot. Maybe Rangers supporters should read Butchers Biography & c the way Mo Jhonston was treated by his fellow players. Or maybe Butcher is a liar & Ray Wilkins Woods & Walters. Strange that our faith gets 2 them. Am of 2 cross my self now 2 say my Prayers & those prayers r 4 the Hungery the Sick & people in war torning Countries. Hope saying my prayers doesn’t offend any Rangers Fans. If it does c a Dr gd nyt & god bless u & Allah 2 matthew December 30, 2012 A club born out of charity actually. Get your facts right. Ann December 30, 2012 Facts, you really want them to get them right, I’m afraid Mathew you will have a long wait. t December 30, 2012 what about Marco negri? jgg December 30, 2012 Rangers died, the accusation Sandaza made is in regard to the new football club,there should be no confusion. halfaperson December 30, 2012 Boruc was cautioned for a bizarre sequence of masturbatory/come ahead/religuous mumbo jumbo gestures. One has to wonder what kind of Catholic would demean his faith in such a fashion. Del December 31, 2012 Shhhh, if this is repeated too often it may become fact and the banner with the blatant lie will be confined to the bin (shame as the spelling was correct). And remember the truth here just doesn’t fit the agenda. Peter Cairney will be along to shout us down. thecornerflag January 4, 2013 That’s settled then, Sandaza should bless himself at Ibrox. Glad we’ve got that straight. lewis December 30, 2012 Its not sectarianism … its common sense … the same could be said if Messi went around the pith at Barca with a Spain flag … or if anyone showed an open sign of protestantism as a Celtic player … just because there are not any open signs of protestantism does not mean it would not happen … as I said … common sense … Mick December 30, 2012 And some people say blame catholic schools!!!! The post by nemesis is proof that drugs are bad for you, each and everyone of his idiotic points is destroyed quickly by the post below, and as for the other clown Dwelsh who can’t even spell Protestants right, I thought maybe as a new club the old co fans might want to start afresh and become a welcoming club open to all, but with clowns like these 2 unfortunately the only thing that will bind the old Glasgow Rangers and the new The Rangers will be the title of Scotland’s shame Big Dee December 30, 2012 …I hear Scott Brown was told by “someone” at celtic he,d be sacked if he played his flute in the dressing room…lol..honestly pal your a joke,why dont you just come clean and call your blog celtzine then things would be a whole lot clearer.. Ian Mclean December 30, 2012 THE PROBLEM WITH SECTARIANISM LIES WITHIN THE “SEPARATE SCHOOL’S POLICY” WHY ARE THE ROMAN CATHOLIC “MINORITY” ALLOWED TO PRACTICE THEIR OWN BELIEF’S IN THEIR OWN SCHOOL’S WHILST THE PROTESTANT “MAJORITY” ATTEND “MULTI CULTURAL” SCHOOL’S ? WHERE THEN DOES SECTARIANISM BREED IT’S SELF. NOT IN “MULTI CULTURAL” SCHOOL’S ! David December 30, 2012 And yet the Celtic (broadly supported by Catholics) is open to anyone…. Rangers r.i.p (broadly supported by the mixed schools crowd) had fans willing to burn season tickets because a Catholic was signed. Schools have no bearing on this…. Bigoted parents that tell their simpleton kids “it’s aw they kafflik schools fault” are to blame. Probably best if you grow up now. ProVwan December 30, 2012 A good point, parenting, nurturing, can’t be overestimated. Every parent has a duty to the child and that duty includes the protection of the child from institutional indoctrination. Del December 31, 2012 That will be the same Rangers who’s burned their season tickets who have been playing to near full houses week on week, year on year for the past 23 1/2 years since Johnston signed. The same Rangers who’s season ticket uptake increased for season 89/90 in the wake of this signing. Lets not get the facts in the way of good anti Rangers rant:-) #oneshowintown PrideAndNoPrejudice December 30, 2012 Ian, Catholic schools are not the cause of sectarianism. The context of your comment is as ignorant as the manner in which it is written. Stevie December 30, 2012 Ian asked yourself why catholic schools were required in the first place. Ann December 30, 2012 Ian mc leani We were not allowed to go to schools in Glasgow incase we contaminated those that were there,the reason we were given our own schools sectarian from the start. Paul December 30, 2012 I attended these ‘multi-cultural’ schools in Scotland yet we attended CoS services at Easter and Christmas while I was raised a Catholic at home. Catholic schools exist all over the world without this problem, even just over the border in England. Sectarianism is bred in the home, probably where you were indoctrinated with your warped beliefs. Murdo December 30, 2012 Your blog might be rattling a few feathers(mine too) because the truth hurts but then in my opinion you lose all credibility when you get to the part about who advised Sandaza. You have taken for fact every quote that you have used which suits your agenda and bashes Rangers but can’t quite bring yourself to believe the club when they say that nobody in an official capacity was his ‘advisor’. McCoist, McCulloch, Bell or other players are all officially part of the club. The ‘advisor’ could’ve been anyone from a previouy stated dinner lady to one of the cleaning staff or even an outside contractor doing repairs. How would someone who has just joined the club know everyone who officially is employed by the club? You don’t know who said it and neither do I. But once again the Gers are guilty before being proved innocent. Right at the end you finally get round to saying its guesswork but then ruin it by claiming that someone at the club is still of the opinion that openly practicing your faith in front of the Rangers fans is still not on. Andy Muirhead December 30, 2012 Murdo aka Bill I merely listed those who would have the necessary influence to stop Sandaza from blessing hmself. Of course it could be a dinner lady or anyone else at the club outwith those who I listed. It could have been fans for all we know – either way it is someone at the club, employed by the club or represents the club. Do yo honestly think that a dinner lady, a cleaner or an outside contractor could have the undue influence over a footballer? And where did I state the club were guilty? I stated that the club denied Sandaza’s claims, that they never advised him – but that doesn’t mean one of their employees or representatives didn’t. As you said there are so many folk at the club – how would they know who told Sandaza not to bless himself? Murdo December 30, 2012 Well obviously whoever advised him didn’t have undue influence over him as he went ahead and did it anyway. Surely he would have been more inclined to listen to the advice if it had come from an official channel rather than someone else? Don’t get me wrong here, I’m no bigot and whoever said it should be taken to task for it. And as for asking where you stated the club were guilty. You serious? It oozes out through your hatred of the club. And what is this aka Bill all about? Martin December 30, 2012 Dear oh dear. Any excuse, eh? Desperate, desperate stuff. Maybe somebody advised Sandaza not to bless himself in case some fans reacted badly. But the end result was Sandaza did bless himself and nobody bothered. He was applauded onto the field in the usual way. The club, including Ally McCoist, have made it clear it’s not an issue. gb December 30, 2012 a leopard cannot change its spots..oldco or otherwise, anything to do with this sick institution will always be tarnished with sectarianism rob December 30, 2012 Rangers should return to the protestant only signing policy. As many commentators have said, David Murray ruined Rangers and ruined Scottish football. A big part of this was allowing followers of a despicable and evil religion like Catholicism to play for the biggest team in Scotland. Andy Muirhead December 30, 2012 Rob are you seriously advocating a sectarian signing policy in 21st century Scotland? Or are you being sarcastic? lewis December 30, 2012 I can understand where Rob is coming from … the likes of Burke, McCormack and Wilson would not have walked out so quickly if they were true Gers men … having a team full of true Gers men might be deemed sectarian these days by some trouble makers but it makes footballing sense … probably why the Celtic youth system is full of kids from Irish Catholic backgrounds … could be deemed as sectarian or does it just make sense? Andy Muirhead December 30, 2012 Lewis how many of Celtics youth system are irish catholic or descended from them?? Or was it just a sweeping statement? Btw you will find that he wasnt talking about Rangers minded players but protestant Rangers players by willfully signing only protestants is sectarian in nature and also find it is illegal. Employment law, equal opportunities legislation for a start would be breached. lewis December 30, 2012 I dont have the exact figures on the amount of Irish Catholic descendants playing for the Celtic youth teams but I would estimate through experience and familiarity in the youth game that it would be at least 75% … if you can find the actual amount and I think this would be impossible but if you could then it may be even more than this … when you consider that this is not equal in relation to the % in Scottish population then it would be a fair assumption that there is either a sectarian policy in place at Celtic as we speak or just footballing sense by attempting to produce Celtic minded players? Andy Muirhead December 30, 2012 Lewis you made a hugely generalised statement without knowing the facts. Maybe you should research it as you seem to think it is true. billy December 30, 2012 Well said Lewis. A common-sense response to an Idiotic Article. Personally,I have always thought that the signing of Mo was the best thing,out of many, that Souness ever did for Rangers. Hats off to Mo as well. Also, I used to think that the Author of this pish seemed like a decent bloke. No longer. Just another stupid wee rabble-rouser. Your fault,or sin, Muirhead is that of omission. It is your failure to mention that Celtic and Rangers have been steeped in Sectarianism and violence from way back. As have most of the people on this Planet (Christian, Muslim,Jew, Hindu and all the rest). There should be no place for Religion or Religious Symbolism (Pharisees making outward displays to show us how Pious they are)in any sport. Please don’t pretend your ‘trying to help’. Your diatribe against one Club makes your Agenda clear to all. Grow up. lewis December 30, 2012 Would it make sense for a Muslim to make an open religious gesture in front of a home support made up of mainly Jews? Simple question … common sense tells you no … although some trouble makers like yourself might use this as a stick to beat your opponent … it is obvious to any reasoned thinker that it is not sectarian in any way shape or form … maybe you should stick to the real sectarian story in Scotland this week at Dundee including Celtic supporters charged with singing in support of the IRA … you might get some credibility if you did … Andy Muirhead December 30, 2012 Supporters? One supporter was charged for singing pro-ira songs. And we covered the incident at Dens Park a few articles ago. Colin December 30, 2012 I am amazed how many Rangers fans still yearn for the old days of a no catholic Rangers policy , They constantly go on about Catholic schooling being the problem , How thick are these people , A N institution of Rangers size adapts a NON CATHOLIC policy for 117 years and cannot understand why we have bigotry in this sad little country of ours! Celtic on the other hand just do not care who signs or is employed by them and never have , Religion has never been mentioned in the club as all welcome all with open arms , AND yes the Celtic support has its idiots. Rangers players not talking to a player because of his religion and kit men not leaving kit AND canteen staff avoiding serving Catholic players just let’s you see were the problem raised its ugly head IBROX were its been drummed into the players and fans for years that Catholic’s are some sort of enemy or disease. Terry Butcher told the truth I respect him greatly for that and now many Catholic players are opening up on the sheer hatred of any thing Catholic they encountered at the club. ProVwan December 30, 2012 What nonsense! Colin December 30, 2012 I am amazed how many Rangers fans still yearn for the old days of a no catholic Rangers policy , They constantly go on about Catholic schooling being the problem , How thick are these people , A N institution of Rangers size adapts a NON CATHOLIC policy for 117 years and cannot understand why we have bigotry in this sad little country of ours. Celtic on the other hand just do not care who signs or is employed by them and never have , Religion has never been mentioned in the club as all welcome all with open arms , AND yes the Celtic support has its idiots. Rangers players not talking to a player because of his religion and kit men not leaving kit AND canteen staff avoiding serving Catholic players just let’s you see were the problem raised its ugly head IBROX were its been drummed into the players and fans for years that Catholic’s are some sort of enemy or disease. Terry Butcher told the truth I respect him greatly for that and now many Catholic players are opening up on the sheer hatred of any thing Catholic they encountered at the club. Davie December 30, 2012 I see your at the rangers bashing again Andy any comment on the violence at dens park, which so many media outlets managed to miss yet here we are tarring rangers sectarian on gossip. Andy Muirhead December 30, 2012 Davie maybe you should go back a few articles and you will find our article on the Dens Park incident. Ward79 December 30, 2012 First and foremost lets be clear we are not ashamed of our clubs history,however things have changed and for the better,if you want to address sectarianism in Scotland you have to look at segregation in school,as there is no such thing as a Protestant school but we are aware that there are seperate schools for Catholics,I’m sure when your talking of shame it’s no secret that certain things went on at a certain club,in which certain individuals knew about horrific acts and did nothing,that’s shameful Stevie December 30, 2012 Typical Curly December 30, 2012 Faith (read “Catholic”) schools breed sectarianism? Ian McLean – I hope you are not my Minister!! Rangers supporters keep spouting this nonsense, yet they pledge allegiance to a Queen who is head of a Church who have their own faith schools. Considering the quantity of CoE schools in England, surely they should have a worse sectarian problem than we have here in Scotland since they so obviously breed sectarianism? Of course they don’t. It does in Scotland though, and mainly in the Central Belt. Up here in the NE, we really do not give a toss about religion. I am a Protestant Celtic supporter, and as for my mates who support Celtic, well, I am only sure of 2, one is my bro-in-law, and the other plays the organ in the Kirk. The others? Don’t know, and to be honest, don’t really care. The fact is that bigots will always be bigots, they can never change, and never will. Pity they have to rear their ugly heads above the parapets and spout their nonsense on this and other websites. Curly John December 30, 2012 Rob speaks for about 3/4qrs of the Sevco support. This club is a sectarian club. The Old one died and the new entity is pretending to be the same club with the full suppor of the discredited Scottish media. Believe me there will be a return to the past very quickly. The party tunes are belted out at every game and if you have the misfortune to be caught up with them in public you know excatly where their opinions lie. An opportunity was lost. They should have broken with the past as soon as they were born. But Rangers/Sevco have never condemned this opilcy or the abhorrent fascist nature of their support. They cannot it was so ingrained in the Oldco support and it will be a badge of honour with Newco. He would have been advise dby McCoist. He is an under-handed and devious man without ptinciple. He thinks nothing of endangering the lives of people to further his own and Sevco’s cause. Don’t fudge by saying it was a ‘dinner lady’. This came from the top. Smith would have sanctioned it. Disgrace then Disgrace now but thankfully they have no future. ProVwan December 30, 2012 I find it hard to grasp the logic of the response by all parties in this nonsense. Sandaza is a Roman Catholic and is playing for Rangers. Is this not a sign that society is, at least in some small way, moving on. The dismissal of the point made by Nemisis regarding the eradication of sectarian symbology in public shows a deep underestimated understanding of the problem. Religion does not sit well with pride. Humility and understanding does, I would put it to you that any outward sign of, what one perceives as, devout symbolism can to others appear crass and offensive. Religion has very little to do with this sectarian problem, mans pride has everything to do with it jimmy r stranraer December 30, 2012 and here me thinking, over the years we have been told not to bring religeon into football, and whats the first thing catholics want to do.cross themselves,i am aithiest so it doesnt matter to me, but isnt this bringing religeon into football, i have no problem with this, but when the likes of boruc does it he is just making a statement and SURELY in the eyes of rome that is wrong, then again we all know what is right and wrong in rome dont we paul December 30, 2012 i think rob was being facetious but omg point proven by some of the responses not one quote not one FACT in the responses with all theyre whataboutary the silent majority of good rangers fans must cringe as they read what others have posted ian maclean almost every country in the world has faith based schools whether you personaly think they are right or wrong is it right to tell people they cannot choose where they are educated and /or limit their education. dwelsh how many catholics directors at rangers (is that a good thing or bad thing)? martin if it was not an issue why was it brought up?(by a current rangers player) big dee from who? joey ambigouos define please, he was told not to cross himself. and for a finish i will just say to all normal rangers fans do you not see what the morons are doing to your club they are making you paraihs,no normal catholic player(plenty of them)will play for rangers if they get a comparable offer from anyone else.The bigots are putting you at a disadvantage.the more these people are allowed to represent rangers the more people will view you as indicative of these morons. the time for standing up has come. its now. or is nemesis a true represntative. David December 30, 2012 I did go back a few articles, it’s interesting how your post on the dens park violence, you seem to defend their actions and then go on to defend catholic schools with knowledge of their working despite the fact you claim you are not a catholic. Andy Muirhead December 30, 2012 David I never defended the actions of anyone at Dens Park Where did I state this? Secondly yes I am not Catholic, but I married a Catholic she has family that are at school and we see their RE books. Mark December 30, 2012 Not saying this is untrue Andy but do find it a little ‘unusual’ for want of a better word. Without being overly intrusive do you mind telling if this was Primary or Secondary age? Andy Muirhead December 30, 2012 Two are primary and one is secondary. Mark December 30, 2012 Very naughty. The PS should not be sending home the jitters. Available at parents’ meetings yes, sending home class work jotters to do with Religious Education wrong. Unless of course it is their booklets on First Communion? But then that would contradict you original comment… Francis January 1, 2013 Well done for not responding to Mark’s silly comment below. Your religion/lack of religion or your access to your children’s exercise books has nothing to do with the matter – except, of course, in the demented world of Scottish football. It is frightening, and I mean that, to read some of the comments on this blog and to detect the ignorance and barely veiled sectarianism that points to all RC priests as paedophiles and all lay Catholics as brainwashed, unwashed, and latent terrorists. They should read some of the children’s exercise books and discover that what the schools teach is respect for all, tolerance and love and this is one reason why, south of the border, many non-Catholics are happy if their child can find a place in a RC school. P.S. A simple fact, and this, in no way, is meant to diminish the hideousness of crimes by certain individuals, and it is borne out by statistics from many countries, is that a child is much more likely to be abused by a family member than any priest, minister, scout master, etc. Mark January 1, 2013 Sorry Francis, you’ve lost me! What is it you’re trying to deflect or deny? Think you’ll find that I asked the question after the comment made about seeing jotters for RE! I’m willing to wager a lot of money that what I said about curricular jotters belonging to PS children being sent home is correct so please expand whatever accusation it is you’re levelling at me. Francis January 1, 2013 Deny and deflect? Mark, they don’t come into it and simply because they are two of your favourite words, it doesn’t mean they apply. The simple point I was making, and you are well-aware of it, is that talk about Andy’s family situation and the children’s schooling has no place here. Mark January 2, 2013 Francis, I was merely replying to a point that Andy had made to another poster (not me) in which he mentioned about his family & their schooling to back up a point. I have first hand knowledge of.what it was he spoke about in his reply & asked him if he didn’t mind me asking… He didn’t need to reply if he felt I was being intrusive. I then replied with what I know & if you’re in that line of work you’ll know that is case also. So in effect you’re telling not to say anything? Why? I was 100% correct in what I replied to what had already been written by someone else!! Still not sure why you’re pointing it out only to me but hey-ho! If I asked for school names etc I could see your point but the fact the site moderator posted the original comment then replied to it then I would say it was open for discussion within this forum. No? Francis January 2, 2013 Mark, You are beginning to sound like someone who believes he is 100 percent right about everything. I repeat, for the last time, that no matter how it was introduced or accommodated by Andy, those references have no place here. Mark January 2, 2013 Far from it Francis, but know Education Policy on this. But I’ll repeat why me? Whether it should be discussed or not is an entirely different matte, its fact you’re only including the one person in your ‘complaint’ when there were others. Next time address your comments to the people who started it, David & Andy Muirhead. In fact, there have been a few commenting on schools but no comments by you to them. Strange! Mark January 3, 2013 Certainly don’t feel like anyone’s ‘picking on me’! Like I said, find it strange that you replied to me on this where the people who started the debate weren’t mentioned. If I’m being honest I would perhaps say it was yourself suffering the ‘persecution complex’ in that you challenged me as there was a FACT there you did not like. In fact I’m not really sure which references have no place here even to say that but in seeing it’s the last time you’re going to say it, I’ll keep an eye out in future for you telling others! Francis January 4, 2013 You’re trying to be too clever by half, Mark, and fooling and entertaining no one but yourself. There is no FACT that disturbs me. You can have the last say since you’re need for that is clearly greater than mine. This kind of exchange is a waste of a blog. Mark January 4, 2013 I can have the final say? That’s very charitable of you! Especially considering the last time you commented was the ‘last time’. I’ll say again Francis, direct your comments at the others on the thread. I get the feeling you don’t like the fact I gave & that’s why you’re directing I solely at me. Certainly not for my entertainment. Francis January 3, 2013 Don’t develop a persecution complex, Mark. No one’s picking on you. I saw your entry and responded. And this is really for the last time, that I write that such references don’t belong here. thecornerflag January 4, 2013 Mark why is it you think this? Do you also object to students discussing RE with their parents at home? It really is an unusual view (dare I say, silly) to advocate that RE to be kept secret from parents. Mark January 5, 2013 For crying out loud!! It’s NOT me!! It’s Education Policy that curricular (not homework) jotters remain in school. This is the SAME for ALL subjects in all schools in Scotland! If the school was to undergo an HMIe & they sent home all the curricular jotters then they would have no evidence to back up the childrens’ learning. Most PS send home Records of Achievements at end of session which give the parents their art work, certificates, photographs & the like. If the school (HT) are/is sending home jotters as has been claimed then they are leaving themselves open to failing such an inspection & the criticism that comes with it- potentially from the government as well the authority. If you want to see your child’s jotter you have parents evenings. However let me repeat (& this is for Francis’ benefit also) I chipped in my tuppence after original poster & site moderator started the topic. None of this is opinion, it’s FACT! Ann January 5, 2013 Mark not a teacher, all homework goes home to parents in my school lol I will let my h.t. Know she will be in bother. thecornerflag January 5, 2013 Glad you can spot sarcasm from real concern, Mark. Since you acknowledge that Catholic schools have follow the same ground rules and curriculum as everyone else, presumably you don’t have a problem with said schools. Now what was the original point, again? Mark January 5, 2013 I think I said homework jotters Ann. Curricular jotters & homework jotters entirely different. One is evidence for HMIe & one for consolidation of any day to day learning, usually within maths & language curriculum but can be inter disciplinary learning also! Keep up! & please ask your HT as they’ll confirm what I’ve said is FACT! As do your point corner flag. If someone said you couldn’t work in a particular place due to your colour or religion, how do you think you’d react? That’s exactly what is happening in RC Primary Schools (unprompted posts) at the moment! I’ll let you into a little secret (well hardly a secret as easily found on google) but this is being challenged in certain places. After all we’re in the EEC-free trade etc. If someone rejected a job they can do as well as the next person due to their colour they’d scream racism & quote Race Relations Act. Same for sexism & Equal Opportunities Act. Why not religion! I mean the last census shows fewer & fewer of us attend Church so why need for separate schools anyway? It’s coming as I said. The RC church are doing their best to come to a agreement witn the Scottish Government but as Mr Salmond has discovered when trying to implement his minimum alcohol pricing, cutting deals ill only work for so long. You want to be part of the EEC,.. Anyway I hope that’s covered the points. I’ll once again remind you all that i didn’t start this thread but more than happy to add anything else you want clarity on! thecornerflag January 5, 2013 Who said you couldn’t work in a particular place, Mark and what was the place? Come on details.. I do know that lots of my teachers were protestant. Don’t believe me, why not ask (or google) Morag McCreadie. Francis January 6, 2013 The things you learn on football blogs. I know more about jotters than I ever thought I could take in. I’ve also learnt that anti-Catholicism is alive and kicking nastily north of the border. Mark January 8, 2013 Francis:Yawn! Sounding like a stuck record. Sounds like you’re another of these folk that sees pretty well what happens in Scotland (WoS) despite being miles away from it most of the time! Thecornerflag: As if I’m going to name the authority I work for let alone name names on a public forum! & especially not to an ‘anonymous’ user!! However, if you look below at my answer to Norbert that answers the question fully as schools! Francis January 9, 2013 Mark, what a bore you have become, so determined to prove how righteous you are and how far you have strayed from the original subject. You have become dependent upon this blog. Making an entry is the nearest you come to proving you exist in any purposeful way. This is the only reason I am writing – to help you claim you have a life worth living -but this will be the last time – there are much better causes to support than your self-righteousness. Mark January 10, 2013 Can’t be that much of a bore Francis considering you still feel need to reply- despite saying posts ago that you were done commenting. As for being righteous. I’ll state again, I’m only adding facts to original posters comments, but once again Francis you choose to ignore that bit! Mark January 10, 2013 One more thing Francis, you don’t know me! paul December 30, 2012 ward 79 e are not be ashamed of our history” wow just wow says it all. ALAN MCDONALD December 30, 2012 any excuse to have a go, nothing much is happening at the minute so all the clowns jump on this… non story. Crossing yerself or anything else these days and busy body jumps on it (hotels have stopped putting bibles in rooms these days as it upsets some) anyway Rangers are top of th e league (3) and walking it so lets have a go athem for something ..anything ..its a joke.. sad sad sad idiots Ross December 30, 2012 Bitter bitter man. You are the problem. lewis December 30, 2012 What sort of abuse would Messi get if he came out and spoke against Catalan independence? He would be run out of town … super hero or not … common sense says keep away from it … lewis December 30, 2012 Andy … maybe you should research it as I know for a fact that Celtic youth system has more Irish Catholic descendants participating at youth level in relation to the population of Scotland … maybe you can research this and prove me wrong or as I expect you cant or wont as I am correct … James. December 30, 2012 All this talk of religion and I bet a boot in the balls none of the commenters are practising Christians of any denomination. Hate breads hate lets jst be friends it’s better. James. December 30, 2012 Ps. Hail Hail. paul December 30, 2012 To diffuse this situation i would like all commentators to state whether they are in agreement with sandaza being restricted from blessing himself(or any other symbolism)and why? And i ask them to think why they have come to their conclusion. Should new zealand not do the hakka? Should a muslim not throw his hands to the heavens? And if they should not, why not?Who is it actually offending? Only those who choose to be offended i would say. Miserable people are always in a bad mood,and if you ask them why? its always someone elses fault. ProVwan December 30, 2012 Andy. ” Secondly yes I am not Catholic,” whatever school you went to you should have listened. Andy Muirhead December 30, 2012 Listened at school?? Too busy playing football etc. And I went to non-dom schools from primary to secondary school. paul December 30, 2012 lewis with your facts in relation to irish catholic descendants being over-represented at youth level in the celtic(i think thats what you are trying to say)youth system mean that celtic are purposely descriminating against the scottish population and giving preferential treatment to a minority to the dettriment of the said youth system.I am appalled my club would purposely limit themselves by this narrow minded viewpoint. James arrol December 30, 2012 Ha ha ha….you are pathetic…and obsessed. Noticeable you didn’t post an article about the actions of Celtic fans in Dundee….sweep sweep as usual. Andy Muirhead December 30, 2012 I see that you are blind James. I did post an article on the incident at Dens Park. 28th Dec actually check back. I await the apology, but I doubt I will get it from you. Pablo December 30, 2012 Nemesis: quote from yourself ‘YOU TALK ABOUT BORUC WHO IS AS FAR FROM A PRACTICING CATHOLIC AS YOU CAN GET – WHO SHAMELESSLY AND DISGRACEFULLY CROSSED HIMSELF FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF WINDING UP RANGERS SUPPORTERS’ Nothing else needs to be said… That sums up the backward knuckle draggers that this article pinpoints. Social, racial and religious intolerance is shameful and disgusting so hang your head in shame you little no mark bigot. J December 30, 2012 I don’t normally post replies but this article beggar’s belief. Now we are all aware that Celtic fans are trying really hard to make out Rangers are a new club supported by new fans who just appeared when the new company took over because they failed to make us disappear altogether. But the ECA have recognised Rangers History as unbroken and we Still play at the best ground in the country and hold the largest support in Scotland and one of arguably the largest supports worldwide, when we win our next title and cup, the name on those trophies will be GLASGOW RANGERS FC and will be added to the 54 Leagues and numerous other records we hold with UEFA. Now this is what drives articles like this and drives on all the responses by Rangers haters who want us to never to forget 2012. But everyone will forget and Rangers will just keep adding to record totals as we get stronger and stronger. Keep up the sad work and keep reporting your bile because all sensible people read an article like this and just see a sad little RANGERS hater. People are becoming bored with Rangers haters already and many people I speak to don’t care about oldco/newco and only ever use it for friendly banter between mates who are Ranges Celtic fans, on here it seems really serious stuff and almost indicates bigotry, I just hope you don’t get paid for this incompetent rubbish. Ian Mclean December 30, 2012 I STAND BY MY COMMENT THAT SECTARIANISM IS BRED IN SCHOOL AND SEPARATE SCHOOL’S DON’T WORK. NOW BEFORE ANYONE STARTS BASHING MY DOOR IN ACCUSING ME OF BEING AN ANTI CATHOLIC OR ANTI ANYTHING ELSE, LOOK BEHIND YOUR OWN DOOR’S FIRST. YES I AM PROTESTANT, IS THAT A CRIME ? I DON’T CARE WHAT COLOUR, RELIGION OR NATIONALITY A MAN IS WHO PULLS A RANGERS JERSEY ON. AS LONG AS A MAN IS GOOD ENOUGH TO PLAY FOR RANGERS THAT’LL DO ME. J December 30, 2012 Of all the things to have shamed Glasgow clubs this is not the worst. And bigotry has been on both sides let us not forget this, I’m amazed how Celtic fans are portraying themselves as righteous. nearly 2013 December 30, 2012 what about the current celtic captain ,celtic told him to get a tattoo of a certain team removed from his leg haha wich team . lewis December 30, 2012 How about these as a wee insight into the possibility of a sectarian signing policy at Celtic … players brought through by Celtic in recent years are McManus, Creaney, McGowan, McGeady, Maloney, Beatie, McGeough, Forrest and even the young boy that came from Airdrie youth system Tony Watt … from this lot I think that Beatie might be the only non Irish Catholic descendant although not 100% on that … how about that for research Andy? The facts speak for themselves … 20% of the population of Scotland are from Irish immigrants and around 90% of the players Celtic sign from youth system is around at least 90% are from Irish immigrants so it would seem that there is in some form or other a sectarian signing policy at Celtic FC … Andy Muirhead December 30, 2012 Maloney was born in Malaysia. lewis December 30, 2012 What do you think of the facts I have shown you Andy? Is the “Maloney was born in Malaysia” the best that you can come up with … face it Andy … there is a huge sectarian stench surrounding the Celtic home grown signing policy and no mistake … your thoughts would be appreciated Andy? Andy Muirhead December 30, 2012 Lewis all you are doing is guessing. You have no proof of the Celtic home grown policy all you are going on is what their perceived ancestry should be given their last name. U20 team: How many of them can you state categorically are of Irish Catholic descent? http://www.celticfc.net/team_u20s Development Squad: How many of these players can you state are of Irish Catholic descent? http://www.celticfc.net/team_devsquad Development Squad players: Bahrudin Atajic – Bosnian – was born in Sweden. Joe Chalmers – Scottish Glenn Daniels – Belgian Darnell Fisher – English Marcus Fraser – Scottish and represents Scotland at Youth Level Paul George – Born in Northern Ireland has played for both Northern Ireland and the Republic at Youth level John Herron – Scottish and represents Scotland at Youth Level Jackson Irvine – Australian Callum McGregor – Scottish and represents Scotland at Youth Level Robbie Thomson – Scottish and represents Scotland at Youth Level Patrik Twardzik – Czech Filip Twardzik – Czech Under-20 Squad – Three players – Kelleher, McNally and O’Connell are Irish. 13 players are Scottish, 1 Swede and an Italian. lewis December 30, 2012 I am not talking about the U20s … I am talking about the U11s upwards and I am not guessing … Beatie is the only non Irish Catholic to have come through Celtic system for decades … wake up Andy and admit I am right … facts speak for themselves Andy Muirhead December 30, 2012 I wouldn’t know what religion kids are and you don’t either as there are hundreds throughout the youth ranks at Celtic. You are guessing nothing more. Publish the facts then list every player since you seem to know them all inside and out. Btw Under-20s are still part of the youth setup at Celtic Park, before they make the leap to the development squad. Squire67 December 30, 2012 Possible reasons for this would maybe be that these boys families are of a celtic supporting background?? Were they approached by RFC to sign as youths 1st? If given the choice, would you want to get a chance at the team your family support, or their rivals? Signing established professionals on basis of religion would be a problem… bringing through kids that already know the club is something quite different lewis December 30, 2012 Slight over representation Andy eh? Coincidence maybe? lewis December 30, 2012 Check out the facts Paul? ritchie December 30, 2012 both rangers and celtic are as bad as each other both were formed on religious grounds 1 by irish catholics the other by british prodestants iam a rangers fan and proud of our history just like u celtic fans are proud of yours which i yhink is a bit sick to be honest u support a club who sing IRA songs im from n.ireland were the ira murdered and blew up innocent people YOU ARE ALL SICK PEOPLE FOR SUPPORTING SUCH FILTH if you dont like british rule DONT LIVE IN BRITIAN as the meerkat would say SIMPLESSSSSSSSSSS Stevie December 30, 2012 Just a casual hint of racism. Paul c December 30, 2012 I couldn’t read all of it as the grammar and spelling mistakes were too much lewis December 30, 2012 Let those without sin cast the first stone … the Celtic fans are always the same … they are unable to admit their own failings and quick to point the finger of blame at the door of others … if only we could see ourselves the way others see us eh Andy? Bobby December 30, 2012 Rangers did away with their religious discrimination policy years ago. They also did away with green bendy straws, and pepperami(with green packaging. Oh, and they took Eggs Benedict off the menu, coincidentally about the same time as a new Pope was elected. Can`t for the life of me remember his name. Bobby December 30, 2012 Rangers can`t sign ROI players because Celtic take ALL of them. Green-as-God December 30, 2012 Hi everyone Well it’s nearly new year a chance for a new start. a fresh start A chance to wipe the slate clean but here we go again with the glorious history of a once alive club infecting a new club They had a chance to put away the poison and the hatered that ran through the veins of the club and infected the support But no they can’t as its strength it’s wot the fans want they never want to see a new or fresh start they yearn for the old days if oppression of the Catholics and the rise of the mighty Protestants It can never be those days are gone for good and thankfully for the better and inrichment of the Scottish people No before all u zombies start shouting ie joey My nemesis Lol. He wishes I am a catholic Yes I know it’s hard to believe as I hide it well But I am married to a Protestant and both my daughters are Protestant which makes me proud to see both my daughters read this article and say why is religion used as a reason to hate I never throw my religious beliefs around there are no need for it everyone is created equally Its only the way we r brought up that devides us apart We have hatered from every sect of every religious type it will never change unless we change ourselves I have sung the songs that I should have known better to have we all have But as a father a protecter of my daughters if they were ever to start hating someone due to wot ever there beliefs are I just wouldn’t stand for it I never brought up them to discriminate anyone just because there beliefs don’t mirror mine our ours The sorry thing is not everyone thinks that way i find that as Celtic fans and Catholics we Can take a step up as we were discriminated against for years that’s why we r more tolerant to other beliefs due to this The Protestant side however don’t see it this way this is because they were the ones doin the dominating It reminds me of the South Africa was after the apartheid there was fear that there would be terror gangs taking justice into there own hands for all the atrocities that had happened but it was the complete opposite there was a healing of wounds a brotherly love that surprised everyone which showed everyone that moving forward is far better than looking backward I just wish this had happened in this instance but its never going to happen but it only gives the newco and its fans a negative look while our club will always stand tall and proud of out history of openness and inclusion of any and all faiths To me anyone who wears our shirt stands for a lot more than supporting a football team it stands as a sign of brothers and sisters of a family that will be there in your hour of need you only need to ask and we will come to your aid Be proud and let them hide in there days gone by let them lurk in the shadows if there halls where they sing there poisonous songs and black ball any who are not of there wanting Our hall holds 60,872 and everyone is welcome cross urself or not come join our family lewis December 30, 2012 Take a wee look at my earlier posts about the Celtic sectarian signing policy and my facts that back it up and stop with the usual lies about open to everyone garbage and propaganda … Green-as-God December 30, 2012 Are u kidden Lewis Ur citing that the most if the players at celtic are catholic Ask ur self why We r the biggest club in Scotland that wins titles and trophies we also play in the best European compitition Correct me if I’m wrong The second biggest and second biggest paying wages club is newco Now if ur a catholic and ur good at football which club are u going to steer towards U trumpet u really just argued my very arugument for me I’m sure in the smaller clubs there are a varied mix of both faiths But when it comes to advancing the catholic players will stay say from newco it’s not that we kidnap them they just don’t want to play at a bigoted club like the newco Unless u can think of another reason C’mon lets have u Joey Essex December 30, 2012 I do enjoy laughing at rangers fans every time their racist moronic bigoted support and establishment are exposed for what they are. Rather than express their shame or disgust, all they can do is scream “what about Celtic???!!” And then immediately assume some sort of one sided papal bias from the author. A bit like how Americans cannot comprehend anti American sentiment in 80% of the world! As an English atheist in London who follows neither Glasgow side, it’s quite simple to us south of the border: Rangers = catholic hating, famine mocking, racist, BNP, loyalist, UVF, C18, Chelsea headhunter wannabe’s who every English football thug, EDL and BNP member adore. Oh and they go around Europe smashing cities. Celtic = bunch of pissed up good time Charlies, with a fantastic support who are commonly recognised as the best fans in the world, with no atmosphere comparable. They go to Europe and make friends not riots. As I say, like it or not, to the non knuckle dragging racists of England, the impression is pretty clear cut. wonky December 30, 2012 I don’t think you could really have a Protestant school- it would have to be a Presbyterian School or Episcopalian etc- as there are far too many schisms and sects within the broad church of Protestantism. There is only one form of Roman Catholicism, hence a singular school system. They are very popular in England, North America, Australia and other parts of the Queens Commonwealth- yet in Scotland are held up by some as the cause of sectarianism in our nation. In my opinion there is only one sectarian organization in Scotland and that is the Orange Order. It should be banned in this day and age and we allow this discriminatory group to march willy-nilly through our streets, leaving us with vast policing bills, interruptions to commerce and all the other social costs that come with it. Rangers problems manifest from their close links to the OO and will continue to erupt as long as much of the fanbase continue to have links to such an organization. I can tolerate other peoples differences but will never tolerate their intolerance. eoin December 30, 2012 Scum then Scum now Scum forever! lewis December 30, 2012 Are we to believe that out of a population of around 5m that Celtic cant find a single Protestant player good enough to emerge from their youth ranks? Seriously … anyone that claims that Celtic are an all inclusive club are either stupid or in denial … strange bunch the Celtic fans … unable to have a reasoned debate without the usual propaganda and lies … Stevie December 30, 2012 Poor Lewis I feel your pain I really do. edward December 30, 2012 The hatred of Catholics by Rangers/Now Sevco was apparent for everyone to see and hear yesterday at Hampden.They,thousands of them sang the billy boys ,no surrender and the famine song with great gusto.No bigotry at Sevco ,they certainly continue with the hatreds of Oldco.In addition they intimidated the Referee and bullied him into decisions that were made to please the bigots.I guess the inimidation of SFA SFL and the fear of Protestant fringe groups and violence (as they did with Neil Lennon) has emboldened them to continue to use this weapon with impunity.Will anybody report the singing of these hate songs yesterday.I doubt it Officials the SPL,SFA and the media are afraid of what these violent fringe group might do to them.What a sad Country Scotland has become. wonky December 30, 2012 Every Rangers fan I meet keeps telling me how they are the biggest team in Scotland…most successful club in the world…the greatest, most incredible and world record holding blah-blah-blah…as I consider how the non-dom schools in Greater Glasgow have 50% and sometimes more Celtic fans in them and 95% support in Catholic schools…even in Ayrshire, Lothian and Fife the Celtic support is accelerating at an incredible rate. One of my mates in Dundee says there are more Celtic fans in his city than United and Dundee put together and that he has never met a Rangers fan in Dundee. Its more or less the same everywhere, even in traditional “Loyalist-Unionists” areas of Scotland. I was in Lewis a few months ago and the amount of Celtic fans was staggering. In contrast the Rangers support is shrinking year on year. The club and many in its support are viewed as too insular and inward looking. Celtic are viewed as open and expansive as a club, is seen as more acceptable by parents for their kids to support than Rangers. That is why the trouble at Dundee is so depressing and how it affects the clubs great reputation. Celtic left Rangers behind commercially so long ago due to this perception of the club- they need to keep working on that in order to expand as a brand: they are after all the only truly global brand in Scotland, ie Nike Sponsorship, invitations to play Real Madrid in US, shops on all the major high streets of Scotland/Glasgow Airport etc. They may well be in the Champions League for four years in a row that Rangers are not there- potentially a revenue of between 50 to 120m- as well as having superior SPL income in that same period. Celtic could also sell someone like Hooper, Wanyama, Matthews within the next few years for combined figures of 30 or 40m. And yet Rangers are the biggest club in Scotland? This was maybe true twenty five years ago (not in terms of fan size) or maybe pre-Stein days but come on…it really is stretching things to the very limits of credulity to claim this sort of claptrap now with Celtic so far ahead on the horizon. John December 30, 2012 Yes you fools ask yourselves why there are catholic schools in the first place? Answer because BIGOTS did not want irish children in your schools , PATHETIC CLUB , PATHETIC SUPPORTERS , PATHETIC PEOPLE , I won’t say r.i.p because they don’t deserve peace trueblue December 30, 2012 excuse me no you wanted catholic schools so the catholic teaching would be taught non denominational means that all accepted get the facts right gee Stevie December 30, 2012 The truth is something you can’t accept. Mark December 31, 2012 Truth is something BOTH clubs are in denial of Stevie. Norbert December 30, 2012 @Lewis maloney was born in malaysia, beatie is a scottish protestant (who played for rangers in his youth) and tony watt is scottish born and bred!some people here seriously need to wise up!accept that rangers were a bigoted club, had bigoted fans(obv still have looking at some comments) and things were done badly! celtic have bigoted fans, but to my knowledge have never had a bigoted signing policy.. if you can prove me wrong go ahead.. lewis December 30, 2012 Norbert … you have either misunderstood my posts or are thick as mince … the point I make is very clear regarding the sectarian signing policy within the Celtic youth system … one Protestant signed from a population of around 80% of the total 5m in Scotland and the rest from the 20% would suggest that Celtic have a sectarian policy at youth level regarding the home grown players … cant argue against the facts unless you pretend to be that thick that you just ignore them … lol Norbert January 1, 2013 You have given no facts just simply opinions that are frankly deluded and laughable! Until you produce evidence you just look like a simple minded bigot/Celtic hater Tam December 30, 2012 Well what about the RC education systems openly sectarian employment policy? No catholic, no job. And mugs on here are trying to say that those schools don’t breed division? Get real. Rangers signing policy was done away with over 20 years ago. The majority of the tubes who leave comments on this page probably weren’t even born then. D Martin December 30, 2012 Lewis I think you need to get your facts right about the percentage of Scottish people being descendants of Irish origin. It’s not 20%. They are ALL descentants of the Irish (with exception of Asians etc.). You need to learn your history. Scotland was colonised by the Gaels from Ireland. That’s why you’re a Celtic nation you numpty. Stevie December 30, 2012 Same question again maybe you’ll be able answer, Why was there a need for catholic schools. Mark December 31, 2012 You’re having a laugh Stevie. Asking someone to answer your question when I’ve put at least half a dozen to you in various threads but had no answer. You’re good! Stevie January 2, 2013 As I’ve had a busy time recently, why not hit me with all these question again you’ve asked. Lets not forget you yourself have a way of dismissing anything that doesn’t suit your agenda. Your such a smart egg why not do a blog and lets see what you’ve really got to say. Mark January 4, 2013 Ask you questions again for you to deny & deflect Stevie? No. Don’t think I’ll bother thanks! Stevie January 4, 2013 Didn’t think so Mark, your very good at handing out smart comments, when I gave you evidence of my point of view you sweep it away with a smart remark. You wonder why I won’t take you seriously and answer any of your questions. Why you feel the need to bring religion into any discussion on the forum/blog is beyond me. Goodnight and goodbye, don’t bother replying. Stevie January 5, 2013 Give me your half dozen questions then Mark. You do know that’s six. 6 Mark c’mon don’t hide lets hear them, or are you telling lies. Mind I’ll check. Pete December 30, 2012 The problem with rangers is their northern Irish support. These morons come to Scotland with their poison and spout it through the terraces. Then the scots simpletons take it on board as gospel and the hate begins. The flag thing that happened in Belfast just backs up my case, they are idiots. Norbert January 1, 2013 If your not a catholic then you cant get a job in a catholic school? Do you honestly believe this? Lol.. Delusion!! Mark January 1, 2013 Norbert: Tam’s ALMOST correct with what he is saying. To get a permanent job working in an RC primary school you have to have the ‘extra’ bit on your teaching degree which says you went to an RC Teacher Training College (they do extra work on the teachings of Communion & RC values within the Religious Instruction area of the B.Ed course). You can work in there on a temporary basis without an RC qualification (days & weeks rather than months). If you don’t have this qualification then you would not be appointed as a class teacher in a primary school on a permanent basis. For permanent promoted posts within the primary sector they would prefer the same. However if you can obtain a letter from a priest saying you are sympathetic to RC values then you have the opportunity to apply for & that would make you eligible for an interview for that post if deemed to be an appropriate candidate by School/School Board/Parent Council for it. That in turn may lead to a permanent position. In my local authority there are currently NO teachers in Primary Promoted Posts that do not have the RC qualification. Secondary is different in sense it is ‘specialist’ subjects. However many RC secondary schools ask for RC qualification also. Doubt me? Check MyJob Scotland website. Patrick December 30, 2012 There will surely be no place for the no surrender monkeys in a free and independent Scotland. Will there? Mick December 30, 2012 Green as God, most accurate and sensible post on the blog. I also am a Catholic but sent my son to a non denominational school, the reason being it was a better school. My wife is a non Catholic, who by the way accompanied my children to church every Sunday until they were old enough to decide themselves. She supports Celtic and even now cannot understand the bigotry in this country. The new Rangers (see fifa) now have the opportunity to leave this nonsense behind, but I am afraid the many decent supporters they have will be too intimidated to voice their opinion for fear of retribution. Grow up Scotland and join the 21st century. Naefear December 30, 2012 So singing about a “The IRA” that murdered woman and children is not!!! look forward to your article on this, or is this not sectarian!!! Some guy on a fifa blog wrongly describes the club and not the company going out of business and you quote this to fuel you obsession, I have posted evidence that proved beyond a doughy that Rangers FC 1872 continues but you ignore or delete it. Funny that!!! Andy Muirhead December 30, 2012 Where have I deleted any of your comments Naefear? Green-as-God December 30, 2012 Hello Neafear how r u today I love the way u describe FIFA and there notice of the death of rancers as some guy I’m sure FIFA are more than one guy but believe wot u want as u don’t listen to common sense But anyway lets get back to the hear and now Did I not ask u on another blog why come uefa.com website does not show a rancers male team They only show a women’s team But u never got back to me maybe u can answer it now Singing songs about the murder of any innocents can not be tolerated in any football stadium I think that’s why there was new laws brought in by the Scottish government to but an end to it So we all wait for ur reply Gary C December 30, 2012 There’s a few points I’d like to make. a) I have many friends who are Rangers fans and actually two of them are Catholics. b) Why would Artur Boruc blessing himself infuriate/incense/cause a riot amongst Rangers fans? If I saw a Muslim praying or a Jewish man practising his faith it wouldn’t make me irate. I think that question alone answers itself. c) Why are Catholic schools the problem of sectarian hatred in Scotland, when in every other country in the world there is no problem with them? Is it maybe the small mindedness of the people in Scotland, again which would answer questions b) I really do worry about this country, I love Celtic because my grandfather took me to my first match in 1978 when I was 5 and that memory of him taking to matches( Without wearing colours I may add) live with me. When I think of Celtic, I think of my grandfather, a man I adored. His Father was from Fife and an Orangeman. He chose to marry a woman he loved who was Catholic and his family disowned him. He became a huge Celtic fan because he loved the way they played football and also he used to play alongside Jock Stein in the 50′s with Albion Rovers. So all of you Celtic or Rangers fan continue with this bile, you’re just going to pass it onto every single generation of this country and it shall remain the small bigoted country that we’ve live in and has been for over a century. Me for one I have looked into leaving Scotland for North America and love the Famous Glasgow Celtic from afar. trueblue December 30, 2012 Are you trying to tell me boruc didnt know what he was doing ,You seem to forget the stink when gazza and the invisible flute incident or andy goram conducting the fans singing the sash you all done one as usual yet if we complain its religious get a grip it works both ways ffs trueblue December 30, 2012 whens the plane Wonky December 30, 2012 I don’t think there is any real need to leave the country- the sectarian problem is not that bad in Scotland- the vast amount of people couldn’t care less what religion you are. If you really want to get away from it then moved to the Borders, Stirling or Perth, where there is virtually no sectarianism at all. An independent Scotland with greater oil/gas revenues and control over tax raising/borrowing will mean a better society based on principles of true equal opportunities for all, similar hopefully, to Denmark. Scotland has the potential to be a truly great and innovative nation if its people would only embrace freedom- don’t let the knuckledraggers take that away such a privilege. Gary C December 30, 2012 In reply to naefear ___________________ I don’t think Celtic fans should sings songs about the IRA, I think there’s a time and a place for that. Though I may add your club had a rabble of a rememberance day a Ibrox (Which the Mod have investigating) I put it to you, who has murdered more Women and children in the last 100 years? The IRA or the British Army with their colonisation of countries? Mau Mau murders and mutulations, 50,000 + which I may they’ve just won a case against the British Government in the High Court in London or maybe the 200k+ plus innocents murdered by Bush and Blair in their Illegal war in Iraq. I could go on and on about the British Empire and it’s plundering and murdering. So yes I disagree about Ira songs being sung at Celtic Park, I think it should just be football songs.But think about that the next time you sing Rule Britannia at Ibrox. trueblue December 30, 2012 The soldiers many of them catholics i may add but once again you people just sweep that a side are their to do the job their asked to do doesnt mean they like it and please dont dodge what was said you sing about the irs BECAUSE YOU COME UP WITH THE CRAP THEY WERE FREEDOM FIGHTERS NO!!! THEY WERE MURDERERS PLAIN AND SIMPLE Stevie December 30, 2012 As I cant disagree with your point on rebel tunes being sung at football stadia. I’m positive that the MOD would much prefer more tax payers money to provide protection for their forces, rather than paraded around ibrokes. trueblue December 30, 2012 Fact is and most of the celtic fans seem to miss it THERES NO NEED TO CROSS YOUR SELF IN A GAME OF FOOTBALL OR WEAR IDOLS SHOWING WHAT YOU ARE PERSONALLY I DONT CARE WHAT ANYBODY IS BUT I DONT WANT IT SHOVED IN MY FACE EITHER Andy Muirhead December 30, 2012 trueblue – is it only Celtic players you have a problem with showing their faith etc or all footballers? Hernandez and Kaka are but two who bless themselves. Stevie December 30, 2012 What’s that make you then Trueblue a bigot or just intolerant. No wonder your club died. trueblue December 30, 2012 i dont need nor want peoples religion stuck up my nose whats so difficult to understand about that or are you trying to make some thing out of it ??? Stevie December 30, 2012 Intolerant then not much better. Just think how the people who have to suffer all the walks your side expose society to. Albert December 30, 2012 Scumbag club followed by scumbag people. Rangers said “it’s not policy” That is not saying they didn’t do it. It wasn’t ‘policy’ all those years ago but it was “an unwritten rule”. McCoist has been exposed over the past few years as a far cry from his cheekie chappy media routine. He’s a sleekit bigot and no more. trueblue December 30, 2012 im no scumbag matey Gary C December 30, 2012 trueblue _____________ Someone crossing themselves on a football match is being shoved in your face. You better not close your at the start of most football matches or check the religion of a player on sky sports or Espn are about to score, you’re going to be easily offended. Maybe when you’re driving past a church or synagogue you better close your eyes also. but be careful not to crash. Oh wait, what if you’re out shopping and you see a man wearing a turbin? Are you going to close your eyes until he passes? An incredible statement to make. Go and take your medicine trueblue December 30, 2012 ERM did i say i was offended i said there was no need for it please learn to read trueblue December 30, 2012 funny how andy and his sidekick phil three names have the same story going to day they do say if you sleep with dogs you catch fleas mind you Stevie December 30, 2012 Makes you wonder when they’re more taxing issues to deal with. trueblue December 30, 2012 think you should read what i put again Naefear December 30, 2012 I am fine “Green-as God” thank you for asking, I only deal in facts and here is two indisputable, one is the official ECA is the sole independent body recognised by UEFA and FIFA and the other is the law, I have numerous others including the SFA on transfers of membership from old company to new, not a new membership but transfer however, this proof is dismissed as I does that suit agendas!!! “Taking into account that the ‘new entity’ also acquired the goodwill of the ‘old entity’, it was held by the ECA executive board that the goodwill, taking into account legal and practical arguments, also included the history of the ‘old company’. “Consequently it was concluded that Rangers FC was entitled to associated membership of ECA as considered to be a founding member.” http://m.stv.tv/sport/football/205975-european-clubs-body-downgrades-rangers-status-but-recognises-history/ RANGERS FC 1872. Rangers FC by “THE RT HON LORD NIMMO SMITH” It will be recalled that in Article 2 “Club” is defined in terms of “the undertaking of an association football club”, and in Rule I1 it is defined in terms of an association football club which is, for the time being, eligible to participate in the League, and includes the owner and operator of such Club. Taking these definitions together, the SPL and its members have provided, by contract, that a Club is an undertaking which is capable of being owned and operated. While it no doubt depends on individual circumstances what exactly is comprised in the undertaking of any particular Club, it would at the least comprise its name, the contracts with its players, its manager and other staff, and its ground, even though these may change from time to time. In common speech a Club is treated as a recognisable entity which is capable of being owned and operated, and which continues in existence despite its transfer to another owner and operator. In legal terms, it appears to us to be no different from any other undertaking which is capable of being carried on, bought and sold. This is not to say that a Club has legal personality, separate from and additional to the legal personality of its owner and operator. We are satisfied that it does not, and Mr McKenzie did not seek to argue otherwise. Source: THE SCOTTISH PREMIER LEAGUE LIMITED REASONS for Decision dated 12 September 2012 By THE RT HON LORD NIMMO SMITH, NICHOLAS STEWART QC And CHARLES FLINT QC The Commission appointed by Resolution of the Board of Directors of the Scottish Premier League Limited dated 1 August 2012 in relation to RFC 2012 Plc and Rangers FC. Maybe you can answer why these official sources that have reviewed all the evidence are wrong and you are right!!! Green-as-God December 30, 2012 You sneaky dog u u cant answer a question with a question i will answer everyone of ur points which I will say are all valid to a certain degree But first please undulge me a little Can you answer the question I have repeatedly asked you and some of ur counterparts To fair atleast u have replied this time but u have failed to answer such a simple question So since I asked u first the good manner thing to do is for u to answer first We r all waiting ur just a tease I think And I promise I will answer everyone of ur points from above. trueblue December 30, 2012 i was talking in general about crossing their self theres no need to do it on the pitch Gary C December 30, 2012 I think Naefear and Trueblue should do what the Zionist Jews did and go and create a land of their where it’s free of all religions apart from their own made up religion. You can take the rest of the bigots with you. I’m sure you’ll have a ball not seeing the sign of the cross, or muslims praying or Jewish Synagogues. You’ll all have a ball. You can maybe have some ethnic cleansing if a few unwanted’s wander onto your island. Maybe have a pagan festival and burn them at the stake while singing God save the Queen and Rule Britannia. You really shouldn’t be allowed internet use without your carers@ religious bigoted imbeciles. trueblue December 30, 2012 DO YOU KNOW HOW YOUR RELIGION STARTED ???? OR YOU ANOTHER WHO HASNT GOT A CLUE ???IMBECILE MMMM DONT THINK SO MATE trueblue December 30, 2012 you like your insults eh theres afew i could give back to you that would make your eyes bleed but as its past your bedtime ill save it for another day night night mummys calling you trueblue December 30, 2012 in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king ………. so take care of it mate Stevie December 30, 2012 When the arguments lost the threats start. trueblue December 30, 2012 all this still doesnt answer the question who told sandaza not to cross himself but the all knowing bigoted mob jump on the band wagon YES AND YOU ARE BIGOTED every time anything about rangers comes up you cant wait to spew your bile do us all a favour and go do one Naefear December 30, 2012 Gary C, what do you think of the bomb designed to kill a policeman in NI today? think about that the next time you condone the singing of IRA songs, I will sing RB because I am British. Green-as-God December 30, 2012 Neafear Have u forgot about answering the question U must have its not like ur just ignoring it on purpose Lets have a look at this latest post The attempted murder of any person who is only doin there job can never be accepted Just like the intimidation that the Belfast councillors had to endure while only doing the democrated duties regarding the flying of a flag. Or really the termination of flying a flag the good thing about that is the video of all these crazed individuals dressed in rangers scarves and clothing. Again those Chelsea fans at it again But I don’t like to discuss another countries problems as I am Scottish and will deal with the troubles we have here So unlike u and ur counterparts some who for some reason feel that using caps in their posts must make the big and so must make us all fear them It doesn’t just to let u know So I ask one more time naefear Come on down and tell us ur answer Or Give me an A bob. As in A = answer I used to watch a lot of tv quizzes trueblue December 30, 2012 if your talking about me using caps its so people like you might take it in OK MATEY trueblue December 30, 2012 could you say something about the celtic fans behaviour at dundee or do we sweep that under the carpet too like everything you do ??? Andy Muirhead December 30, 2012 What like this article from two days ago – http://www.scotzine.com/2012/12/serious-disorder-at-dundee-match-as-celtic-fans-fight-among-themselves/ – better put the broom back in the cupboard then eh? Naefear December 30, 2012 Gary C, your lats post just comes across as you are the bigot and you just don’t see it!!! So sad. Ann December 30, 2012 trueblue The whole world have footballers that come onto a pitch and make the sign of the cross either with religion in mind or ritual, the whole world, so why is it just a Scottish thing to go ballistic about this, we also have a player that raises his arms in prayer to Allah do you have a problem with this also. ? trueblue December 30, 2012 wow another who cant read what did i say I DONT CARE WHAT RELIGION ANYONE IS I DONT WANT IT SHOVED UP MY NOSE whats so hard to understand about that Ann December 30, 2012 trueblue don’t know your reason for your use of caps when posting, but it makes people think your an old dinosaur stuck in the dark ages with your beloved oldco shouting abuse at them there oirish Catholics across the pitch, you do know what happened to the dinosaurs don’t you, oh silly me of course you do trueblue December 30, 2012 obviously your too thick to take it in what i said what did i say about any ones religion I COULDNT CARE LESS I DONT WANT IT SHOVED UP MY NOSE so only one with that problem is you muppet Stevie December 30, 2012 Would you consider singing the Billy Boys might get up some people’s noses to. Ann December 30, 2012 Fecking talking about yourself trueblue big Internet hardman oh look at me look at me, idiot you are an Neanderthal just like your team Stevie December 30, 2012 Anne I feel your wasting your time with Trueblue history isn’t one of his stronger subjects. Ann December 30, 2012 Already left a reply to the dinosaur stevie Mark December 31, 2012 Would you two- Stevie & Annie- consider the fact that some folk singing pro-IRA songs might get up people’s noses? Oh, forgot you don’t answer questions. Stevie December 31, 2012 Ann don’t bother giving Mark an answer, I’ve answered all his question. He’s more interested in bully females, Ann December 31, 2012 Now here is an inspired thought Stevie why don’t we complain to the moderator on this site about the bully and bigot,ooh wait a minute markie boy already has Mark December 31, 2012 Aw Stevie-Wevis! What’s the matter! Is there someone asking you difficult questions! Aw diddums. Well tell you what you ignore me then. I wo t be ignoring you if I see ‘daft moments with no substance or fact but then I’ve not taken the cream puff! Did you hear Wee Tommy on Five Live breakfast this morning? Sevco fans are an embarrassment but so to are Septic fans. The IRA propaganda from Celtic supporting ‘Mad’ Tommy was sickening. Even brought an apology from the presenter. How to embarrass your club nationally eh? Doesn’t really matter if its on idiot on national radio or 1000s in Manchester, all shows the infirm for what they are- Bigot Brotners. Don’t worry Stevie I know you won’t reply as you’ve got a wee petted lip. Watch you don’t trip over it! Stevie December 31, 2012 Ignored for bullying females. You've been rumbled December 30, 2012 People like Muirhead are not part of the sectarian problem in Scotland; no, people like Andy Muirhead ARE the problem. Dress it up anyway you like, Andy… you are a shit-stirring, mischief making, fool, which most of us can see straight through. Naefear December 30, 2012 Green as God, I think you will find that Rangers 1872 do appear on the site: Coefficient calculation Clubs’ coefficients are determined by the sum of all points won in the previous five years, plus 20% of the association coefficient over the same period (33% before 2009). These rankings will be updated after each round of UEFA club competition matches. Club coefficients 2012/13 http://www.uefa.com/…club/index.html 88 Rangers FC SCO 0.375 6.533 12.720 2.050 0.860 22.538 So a new clubs coefficients can be updated then? UEFA only feature the top devision of each country and Rangers are not in the SPL and that is why not listed this season, As for the woman’s team being listed, would you not think that is part of promoting woman’s football. Next!!! trueblue December 30, 2012 poor soul nothing better to do with your time Green-as-God December 30, 2012 Hey trueblue I’m glad to see u know how to turn the caps of before posting Nothing better to do I’m off on holiday so I thought I would unscramble ur deluded views of New club old club No as I stated if I’m wrong I will post a complete and full apology But u need to prove with facts not wot u believe because its written in the paper Now UEFA are the governing body for domestic club football And they don’t recognise that the newco is the oldco we know this because ur not showing up on there website Now this could be an admin error I know u have ur fingers crossed for that one Or it could be that ur a new club to them so u don’t show up on there radar Now I’m sure we r all familiar with Occam’s razor If not let me explain It is a principle stating that among competing hypotheses, the one that makes the fewest assumptions should be selected. Now with that in mind I’m gonna go with the latter explanation as is makes the least amount of assumptions Or unless the person responsible for updating UEFA’s website completely forgot to put in a rancers mens team but rembered to add the women’s team They also forgot to update all the played fixtures to the rancers page and also forgot to add any points to there score As when they went into administration the rancers were at number 66 which was above celtic. Now there at 88 which is below celtic. They have the exact same points as before That member of uefa can be really forgetful Green-as-God December 30, 2012 I would agree with u while heartedly about the promoting of women’s football that certainly is going to go strengh to strengh How ever no hear me out I thought it was only the top teams is shows So I checked the letter T just incase they had a listing for The rancers as its a new club But no sadly there not in there but I tell u who is in there that top Scottish team called. Wait for it. R u excited The Glen Bar Now we all are familiar with this top Scottish team are we not everybody We must be because as naefear states uefa on show the top teams Is that the best u could do I would say that’s an. F for u I think u need to go away and do more research before u answer again As with the points the DEAD rancers will show on there until there over taking with every other team that’s below them And the rancers page where it goes through all the history and at the bottom it shows u there last played games Was updated on the 5th of December 2012 So why does it not show us all ur games from div 3 Answers on a postcard to RFC 1872 Died 2012 It is true Does it burn Now answer the question Or just do one cause ur just making a Tit of urself Naefear December 30, 2012 You have not presented any official proof Green-as-God, yet you are right, I told you that i only deal in facts and you can not dispute them, The reason why The Rangers woman’s team is listed wait for it….. they play in Scottish Women’s Premier League and UEFA only list top leagues. Funny that!!! You have not addresses my point regarding ECA or LNS because you can not, but don’t let the facts get in the way of your childish name calling, Not one person on this site can disprove my facts because you are all filled with hatred for a team that you thought you had killed but you all missed your chance and you all have no idea what payback will be coming your way ( that is not a threat). Green-as-God December 30, 2012 I told u To answer or go away ur attempt at circumnavigate the actual question leaves me a little speechless U mention facts Then tell me the fact why there are no Rancers mans team showing That’s all I did say when u answered the question that I have asked u for how many days is it now I would whole heartedly answer ur questions to me But have u answered. NO I know why there is a women’s team showing I even know how there are all manner of provincial teams listed The answer is simple They ate all clubs with 3 yrs of history and accounts as stated in uefa rules The reason rancers mens team are not there it the FACT. I say again FACT as u like to deal in FACTS that rancers mens team have niether accounts or history to be shown on the site Now if u don’t believe this FACT email uefa I’m sure they can explain it to u as i have done on numerous occasions Maybe when uefa tell u the same as wot I have said u will believe them Well u won’t we all know u wont just as u don’t believe the FIFA statement All these diffrent world organisations telling u one thing and everyone of them are wrong Walter said it Chuck said it Daryl king said it All rancers men that have said that rancers died and history was gone its a new club. Blah blah blah Or did they not all say it c’mon tell me I’m lying and making all this up but its us that’s obsessed Me thinks not Naefear December 30, 2012 When did Falkirk FC become a new club, newco, and not submit 3 years of accounts!!! http://www.uefa.com/teamsandplayers/teams/club=89723/domestic/ Not updated as not in SPL and only listed because of Scottish Cup and so are Rangers 1872!!! http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/association=sco/domesticcup/index.html HA! ha, blown out of the water Mr green-as-God!!! LOL Green-as-God December 30, 2012 What I like best about the zombies Is the poor attempt of research u have done to explain the missing uefa listing I guess no one on the rancersmedia or follow follow Sites can help u answer these simple but so damming questions So if u think it would be hypothesis 1 Uefa forgot to but in the rancers info for all of this current season but rembered to update the women’s team Vote 1 Or Hypothesis 2. UEFA see the newco as a new club and won’t acknowledge them until they have 3 yrs of accounts. Vote 2 Mmmmmm I wonder wot the result will be Naefear December 30, 2012 That is your opinion, show me the proof then? Naefear December 30, 2012 Green-as-God, I do not revert to childish insults and you have just demonstrated that when you lose the debate you do!!! You really need to have a good look at yourself if that is the leave of your intellect. Fail! fail! Naefear December 30, 2012 Answer this then, a new club would have new membership would it not! Agreement on transfer of membership Friday, 27 July 2012 Following the completion of all legal documentation, the Scottish Premier League will conduct the formal transfer of the league share between RFC (IA) and Dundee FC on no later than Friday 3rd August 2012. At this point, the transfer of Scottish FA membership will be complete. There were a number of complex and challenging issues involved but, primarily, the Scottish FA had to be satisfied that the new owners of Rangers would operate in the best interests of the club, We have reached agreement on all terms and conditions attached to the transfer of membership and are able to grant conditional membership, ahead of the formal transfer of the SPL share a week today. http://www.scottishf…=3&newsID=10252 See that word “transfer” for your information: trans·fer (trns-fûr, trnsfr) v. trans·ferred, trans·fer·ring, trans·fers v.tr. 1. To convey or cause to pass from one place, person, or thing to another. 2. Law To make over the possession or legal title of; convey. You can not show me any documentary evidence of a new club from any official body.Provided me with one official document from the SFA,ECA,UEFA, or the Law please, why can’t you provide this when I can prove my point? Green-as-God December 30, 2012 Wot point have u proved U said transfer of membership to the SFA I’m assuming u r going on about the 5 way agreement That has not been published Ur right the membership was transferred under this agreement But membership being transferred does not in the eyes of the law make the owner of the said membership the same entity as the previous owner all that does is say that the new owner or operator can use the said membership instead of applying from the start of the applying process Unless I’m wrong that’s wot it means The transfer of the SPL share did not go as planned and that was granted to dundee Even chuck is stayed on record the the rancers have never played in the SPL So if u have never played in the SPL how can you be the same as oldco rancers So u have a transferred membership from a defunct entity Going to a new entity That’s it that’s ur argument So if I transfer my cars registration to my wife does my wife own that car legally Answer yes But in the eyes of the law there will have been 2 owners showing myself as a previous and my wife as the currant So put the same context to the membership transfer to the SFA Hence rancers oldco and the rancers newco One membership 2 entity’s on record of ownership How’s that neafear Did u contact uefa yet or r u worried about wot they will tell u Naefear December 30, 2012 That is why LNS made his legal definition of wait….. RANGERS FC 1872. Rangers FC by “THE RT HON LORD NIMMO SMITH” Next? Gary C December 30, 2012 trueblue and naefear, you’re below comtempt. I won’t have anymore dialogue with uneducated imbeciles. Naefear December 30, 2012 Spat the dummy!!!! LOL Ian Mclean December 30, 2012 Rangers supporters should stop getting annoyed at the pathetic imbecilic comments made by the pacific shelfers. I for one won’t be drawn into their pathetic little world any more. Goodnight and good riddance to all you P.I.R.A supporting terrorist sectarian filth. R.F.C WERE, R.F.C ARE AND R.F.C ALWAYS WILL BE. Ann December 31, 2012 Ian mclean A tad angry there, eh just a tad. Naefear December 30, 2012 Still no proof MR Green-as-God, show me evidence of a SFA statement that Rangers are a new club? here is the SFL http://www.scottishfootballleague.com/club/rangers/ Give it up!!! LOL Naefear December 30, 2012 God “Birmingham’ are a new club,newco and have no accounts, why? wait…… UEFA have not updated them, loads more!!! LOL http://www.scottishfootballleague.com/club/rangers/ 21/09/2011, English League Cup, Third round Fail! fail! Mr Green-as-God. Naefear December 30, 2012 So let’t review my proof, SFA transfer of membership, legal definition of Rangers 1872 by LNS, SFL,ECA, I have demonstrated why UEFA do not update teams not in the top league,Club coefficients 2012/13 Rangers FC 1872 updated. You have said something about your wife’s car registration!!! LOL. One thing i love about these debates is that it just homes my research to go after peoples opinion that matter. LOL Stevie December 31, 2012 Lets review the truth. Oldco Rangers died leaving Millions in debt costing countless jobs. Newco was started and was accepted into Scottish football illegally according to football rules. If this is something for Newco fans to be proud of well carry on, but you’ll forever be known as a new club to the rest of Scottish football. So remember take plenty of change and lighters to your games. pistol pete December 31, 2012 Religion has no place at Football, anyone that wants to cross themselves, get to the chapel … Ann December 31, 2012 I go to chapel, but guess what I bless,myself where and whenever I feel like. But then again I do it to annoy the bigoted wee country called Scotland don’t I small minded pete Mark December 31, 2012 That bad Annie go elsewhere. Your mate Stevie had a ‘shame on Scotland’ rant earlier as well. I just don’t get these people that man about things but do nothing about it. You don’t like the supermarket, go to a different one. You don’t like your take- away, you go to a different one. You don’t like your job, you move on. You don’t like the area you live in, you move on. If country that bad then why stay? Oh, you’re still on here Annie as well despite saying you we’re going 4 days ago! That would explain it, all talk…! Stevie December 31, 2012 Ann I see mark is now adding a touch of racism into his rants. Ann you and your family have a great new year. Any luck we’ll not hear from the delusional one again. Ann January 1, 2013 Thanks for that Stevie just in from a great night out,hope you and yours have a great 2013, you do know you just swat pests lol Ann January 1, 2013 Just had a look at the rant, will have to ask Andy to show me the post that I said I was leaving ? Hey ho that’s a septic supporter for you, once again have a great year, I know I will Mark January 1, 2013 Stevie/Annie; thought you two had stopped replying to me? Glad to see you back now it’s 2013 Annie. Ok, first up, it wasn’t a rant. It was a justified statement. Secondly, you never said you were leaving. I suggested that if you dislike the country you live in then notepad of moaning & bleating about go elsewhere as you do in many other walks of life. What was wrong with that? & thirdly, I don’t see what’s racist about the comment but please, pray tell! If I didn’t know better I’d say you two were ganging up & bullying me. Them again, I’m an adult, & can argue facts & answer questions without deflection & denial. billymac December 31, 2012 Andy , You have been harping on about Donald Findlay defending William Walls,Trevor Muirhead, Neil Mckenzie and Jason Campbell. I would have thought that even yourself would have realised that it is his profession and livelihood to defend people charged with crimes. If you think it so heidious for him to do this why are you not commenting about the likes of Pat Finucane who defended too many murderers to mention or Rosemary Nelson whos most famous client isnotorious around where your hero Neil comes from. I’m sure he will know him well. Try to be a bit more balanced in your blogs Andy Muirhead December 31, 2012 Billy – Findlay was a Rangers VC he is now chairman of Cowdenbeath. It may be his job but what would he do if one of his fans fell foul of the law for singing such songs or such attacks? Andy Muirhead December 31, 2012 Finucane and Nelson have nothing to do with football. Findlay did and still does. Huge difference. PrideAndNoPrejudice December 31, 2012 Just a thought for all those who persist in using the childish ‘Septic’ term. That means you are antiseptic. Doesn’t seem to be working very well mind you… Mark January 2, 2013 Big bad Markie eh? Made a point that Ann can’t or won’t accept or answer so what dies she do? Goes running to site moderator. Wait…. Does that sound familiar Ann? I’m sure you’ll answer Del’s points & questions tho. He isn’t me so no excuse. Anyway, I’m not sure if Del’s point true or not but I’m sure I’ll find out with the answers (or lack of) to it. But Del, will you condemn those singing the little ditty at Hampden last week? Be interested to see who, if anyone, is big enough to criticise their own team & support for behaviours- past & present. Feel free to comment as well Stevie or you too busy deflecting & denying also? Ann January 3, 2013 Mark head all over the place right now as I’m sure you will agree I’m allowed, the answer I will give you is I don’t chant or sing regarding Ira, and believe it or not one person round about me sings about them either, and believe it or not I don’t hear to much of it to be truthful, so if it is being picked up it is by the minority not the majority, unlike sevco where you hear about 80% of sevco support, please don’t tell me I’m being paranoid about this, I have not listened to a sevco game since they were liquidated, and unless there has been a big turnaround I will leave it at the majority Mark January 3, 2013 If your husband been taken to hospital you shouldn’t bother relying. Shankly’s famous quote was way wrong as many football fans over the year will testify. Especially those at Hillsborough & Ibrox. I’ll just say this to you Ann. Thank you for taking the time to reply but I’m going to take issue with a couple of things. You said ‘I don’t hear too much of it to be honest’. That implies that it still takes place. Now whether be from one fan, a group of fans or 80% of the crowd it is unacceptable & shows either policing & stewarding turning a blind eye to it or the fans/club themselves. Whichever it is it is wrong. Secondly, it’s the tit-for-tat Old Firm scenario. You admit to ‘not listening to Sevco games…’ & I’m guessing that you weren’t at anymore Sevco/Rangers games before that than the 4 old firm games & any additional cup ties? Therefore to come out with an 80% figure or ‘a majority’ implies that at least 30k people sing those songs at Ibrox. Now I don’t know any better Ann but I’m sure if it was 30k that were still doing it then there would be no sweeping it under the carpet. The idiots are in the minority compared to what it was. However they are still there on BOTH sides & until the clubs encourage the fans to self police, & until the fans are willing to do that then the problem will remain on BOTH sides. One search of YouTube & you’ll find incidences of both sides singing their naughty little dittys & that was after the new Sectarian laws were brought in. Ann January 3, 2013 Mark in reply 1st. yes it does take place,but as I know you do not attend Celtic matches, I can assure if you saw the amount if policing and stewarding that one section of the Celtic support receives verges on the hysterical. I can assure you they are not turning a blind eye. 2nd. As for not listening to sevco games, I did listen when they were alive and in the SPL that is we’re the 80% came from so I think that would take that to a wee bit higher than 30k to around that figure now. Right at the moment I can’t for the life of me I can’t remember the the last cup final cup final they were in before they died, but we had wonderful renditions of “derrys walls” and “up-to our knees” and we were all told what a wonderful wonderful family day out, what chance do we stand, when our first minister and heads of the sfa are saying this, even they brushed it under the carpet. I am sure you will have more to say on the subject, but to be honest we are going to change nothing, and am now tired, and I’m sure I will have other remarks to make on other subjects, but will make sure it does not turn into the equivalent of war and peace. Yours Ann. Ann January 2, 2013 Sorry reply will have to wait markie just in from the football, and taking my hubby to hospital. So I’m afraid your sarcasm will have to wait, before you ask just waiting for him to get ready, is why I had the time to post this. Mark January 4, 2013 Fair enough. I did not realise you didn’t attend the games. & BOTH sides are content to brush it under the carpet. The Scottish Government have passed legislation which should make it easier for both the SFA & the police to act but it doesn’t seem to happen for either team. I attended the Hamilton v Partick Friday night game a couple of months ago & was shocked, surprised & amused to see the ‘Task Force’ police (or whatever they’re called) filming the Hamilton & Partick crowd with their hand held video camera. The thing is a waste of time, effort & money imo! Ann January 4, 2013 Sorry is that comment for me mark, I do attend games ? Mark January 5, 2013 Apologies, misread what you’d written. Point still stands though. Police will get involved in a Hamilton game as looks good on charge sheet & for Scottish govt. to justify this ‘task force’. Amongst the Ild Firm, well they’re not wading into middle of whoever & whatever to drag o e out, nor are they going arrest 1000s either. That’s why I say the clubs are content to brush it under the carpet. On a bit of a tangent, I see old Phil has been lying in his column about the GB meeting Lawwell next week. Think he’s beginning to believe his own hype these days. Leggat one side, Phil the other. I know they say every ‘family’ has one but these two really take the biscuit! Deluded. Ann January 5, 2013 No they are not wading in mark, they just take them to court and say what they sing offends me ? Sevco has offend me for years, do they care? lol lets all get on the offended bus. By the way hubby’s fine reason I am back, Phil ! Leggat f***all to do with me or I with them. See that tangent you went on, I will go there too, why do the police call a certain section of the Celtic support by their first names, home or away does that sound as if CFC has not given the police a helping hand,who is brushing what under the carpet mark. Mark January 5, 2013 Truthfully Ann, I’m not at all sure what you mean? First names, Celtic support? Ann January 5, 2013 Certain members of the Celtic support are called by their first names mark because when asked they have t beeen given them by CFC! So strathclydes finest use these to harass this said supporet, home and away as a get right up yea, we have your names and addresses Mark January 8, 2013 Ann, I’m not sure I grasp your meaning. Why wouldn’t CFC give them their name if they have been causing disorder at games? That goes back to my original point of Lawwell giving the sound bytes but not following up. If you’re insulating they’ve done nothing then why are they not taking it further re police harassment. After recent events, the last thing any police force needs is negative press. Serious point tho. Can I ask how you know this? Ann January 8, 2013 Sure one of them was in paper can’t remember which one, and I go on other sites and actually listen to what Celtic supporters from that section have to say mark,as from where I sit, I see the police videoing them every game Mark January 10, 2013 Ann, whilst no totally doubting what you say, taking supporters websites/forums as fact can be misleading! Would one of these sites be one that you had to be recommended by 5 friends & have a secret handshake before being allowed access? The point you’re making is what I saw that night at Hamilton & like I said the whole thing is a waste of time & money. It’s up to the clubs to self police which takes me back to my original point about Lawwell (& Chuck Green for that matter) coming out with great sound bytes but doing nothing to back it up. Ann January 5, 2013 I will comment on your amusement mark, I call what some of the Celtic support go through as police harassment at a Hamilton/Jags match, not just a wee handheld video camera. Sorry where did I say I did not attend games ? Ann January 10, 2013 Mark had a lol moment reading your last post,no I don’t need 5 friends Or need a secret handshake, most of the time its were i go to get my news regarding most things Celtic , as i gave up on the scottish media a long time agoyou may think it a waste of time and money, and I’m sure these guys that are taken to court do too. Do you really think Peter Lawwall or Green, really care as long as the money is coming in,neither are doing or saying anything that would alienate their support i Mark January 10, 2013 Your last sentence is point I’ve tried to make all along. Lawwell has’t passed comment on Dens incident since it happened. Remember the action that was promised? I guess it’s better than Green since he hasnt commented at all re Hampden incident. Bottom line. Nothing will change at the moment unless both sets of fans self police & that’s unlikely to happen. So how do we change it?