Two days ago Charles Green said: “The history of Rangers is not going to disappear just because HMRC decided to do an about-turn on what they have been suggesting over the last few weeks. This club’s history and traditions are based around its fans, their support and their loyalty and we’re going to ensure the new structure preserves that.”
While Rangers manager Ally McCoist said back at the start of May: “….make no mistake, we wouldn’t lose our history at all. We wouldn’t allow that to happen. If there is a team playing at Ibrox in blue shirts, it’s Rangers. I think I’m right in saying we only became a plc in 1899, which was 27 years after we were formed. Nobody really recognises that change, but there have been changes all the way down the years. Rangers are Rangers and that would be the opinion of the vast majority of people.”
Now there has also been the peddling of the notion that Celtic should not be able to claim their history pre-Fergus McCann era because the Parkhead side named The Celtic Football and Athletic Company 1888 ended under the Canadian’s tenure. However it became a subsidiary of Celtic FC plc, that change in name also heralded the most successful share issue in British football history raising over £14 million. The club was re-branded and renamed Celtic Football Club plc. A massive difference from the saga surrounding Rangers Football Club 1872, whose timeline started in 1872 and was broken in 2012.
Some fans of the Rangers persuasion may think that Celtic’s timeline was broken, but at no time did Celtic ever enter into administration or liquidation unlike Rangers, all that happened was a re-branding of a name nothing else.
Scottish football has a number of clubs who have ended up the same way as Rangers – going into liquidation and then being reborn as a newco – Airdrieonians, Gretna, Clydebank and Third Lanark.
Third Lanark went into liquidation in 1967 and has only re-emerged within Scottish football over the past few years. The current reincarnation of the Hi-hi’s cannot lay claim to the 15 trophies won by their fore bearers.
Likewise Clydebank formed in 1965 and went into liquidation in 2002, saw their history wiped out and consigned to history books, while they saw their registration bought over by Airdrie United under Jim Ballantyne after the Lanarkshire club’s previous namesake Airdrieonians went bust.
Neither Airdrie United nor Clydebank lay claim to the titles of their forebearers, neither do Gretna 2008 whose previous namesake Gretna Football Club were liquidated in 2008 and reborn as Gretna FC 2008 Ltd.
Of those clubs that went into liquidation a total of 18 major trophies have been consigned to the history books and have been honourably laid to rest along with the defunct clubs.
So what makes Rangers so different? They aren’t.
They may have won significantly more trophies than those clubs listed above, they may have had a long and successful history but that has all ended in 2012 whether they like it or not.
THE Rangers Football Club 2012 has now been born and awaits acceptance of its bid to not only join the SFA but also the SPL. June 2012 is the formation date of the newco and it currently holds no titles and no honours. Fans of THE Rangers Football Club can no longer claim to follow the world’s most successful club. The 54 championship titles, 33 Scottish Cups, 27 League Cups and the European Cup Winner’s Cup are not the property of THE Rangers Football Club 2012, despite what Duff & Phelps, Charles Green and Ally McCoist peddle to the press, they belong to the now defunct Rangers Football Club 1872.
Former Rangers player Alex Rae commented this week in a column in the Daily Record, and is very apt: “We can now say that 140 years of history have effectively come to an end.”
Related posts:
- The Worst night in Scottish Football history? Have your say?
- Rangers Football Club an inhospitable environment
- Fanzines in Scottish Football: A Brief History
- Rangers Football Club enter administration as SPL impose sanctions
- Save Rangers campaign: A step in the right direction for Rangers Football Club?
Loading ...
Comments
So no transfer ban as “that rangers” as gone ? We see how far you can ride this horse with the saddle loss , it funny old game and no one gets the last laughter up there . O can any one tell how Spian came on
The transfer embargo is imposed on the club with sfa registration therefore embargo transfers with the registration
So, it’s ok to transfer the bans and fines but not history or titles. Don’t think so
The transfer ban and sanctions are not on the company they are on the club with the registration therefore it is transferable. Unlike the titles and history. A new club has no history or titles won how can it if it was born out of liquidation? If the club stays the same and history stays the same then so does the footballing debt.
Do you know how stupid you look with that reply?
Fanciful thinking from Celtic fans.
The business vehicle that owned Rangers football club folded, the football club is still there and will transfer over to a new (co) business vehicle. The club remains the same as do the number of titles and trophies it’s won. The only change is the business vehicle that owns said club.
Your examples are also not the same. Airdrie bought another club and could have continued with that clubs history had it chosen to do so. They chose not to.
Third Lanark did not transfer over a football club, they restarted anew 15 years down the line with a totally new football club.
For Clydebank see my Airdrie response.
The Rangers newco will transfer over Rangers football club into it’s ownership. Business is new, football club is the same club.
haha. Is this more rhetoric and allegory from grieving rangers fans?
Incubators, vehicles and football clubs being different from a business whos business is that football club… it is all so funny.
Denial is one of the early steps to overcoming addiction to various poisons; I suppose it holds little some relevance here. he he.
Did you know gullible was not in the dictionary until 1872?
“Third Lanark did not transfer over a football club, they restarted anew 15 years down the line with a totally new football club.”-Albert
.
15 years, a day or a moment, it doesn’t matter, it is the same scenario. rangers dead, THE rangers born. 0 wins, 0 loses, 0 draws. 0 titles.
But I digress, i know your denial and THE rangers football clubs denial will last long enough for you to renew your season ticket.
They are definetly not connected
Good luck friend, r.i.p rangers, t’was fun but
tiocfaidh ar la?
tá ár lá teacht.
look ya eejit, that’s it over. The team you supported last season will not be the same team this coming season – That company will cease to be under the register of companies – Liquidation is final. They might even have to sell minty park and mordor mansions to pay off creditors – Do you no understand? You will be supporting a team with a different name in the future – They’re called Hearts.!! suck it up doughball!!
Glasgow’s Green & White!!!
Fiorentina
Fiorentina were relegated at the end of the 2001–02 season and went into judicially controlled administration in June 2002. This form of bankruptcy (sports companies cannot exactly fail in this way in Italy, but they can suffer a similar procedure) meant that the club was refused a place in Serie B for the 2002–03 season, and as a result effectively ceased to exist.
The club was promptly re-established in August 2002 as Associazione Calcio Fiorentina e Florentia Viola with shoe and leather entrepreneur Diego Della Valle as new owner
In the 2003 off-season, the club also bought back the right to use the Fiorentina name and the famous shirt design, and re-incorporated itself as ACF Fiorentina.
With respect, you are wrong. The viewpoint of the SPL is that all SPL history of Rangers would move to the new company. That is also similar for the Scottish FA, provided New Rangers were given the current club’s membership, nice try thow!!!
1. DENIAL and Isolation.
2. Anger.
3. Bargaining.
4. Depression.
5. Acceptance.
see my post above for ensuing argument. In the words of a gullible fool, “Nice Try Thow”
r.i.p rangers, tá ár lá teacht
friend.
Don’t be telling him stuff he won’t believe.
http://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/opinions/2012CSOH%2095.html Read the first two sentences of this document. Now it clearly distinguishes between company and club. If Rangers history is now erased as you say then so is the SFA’s view on the club. Then there should not be any sanctions against the club coming through the appellant board, correct? Or will the SFA make up their own rules again in regards to this? Nice try Andy. BTW your Airdrie example is a nonsense. Where is your Middlesborough example? Oh and Rangers were registered as a company in 1899, so are you saying there was no history before that too?
Damien did rangers go into admin or liquidation in 1899? No they didnt so timeline wasnt broken.
If you are saying that a matter of minutes breaks the timeline then surely Celtic’s history was broken too, be it from Celtic Ath Coy to Pacific Shelf back to Celtic Ath Coy and onto Celtic PLC.
You are clutching at straws Andy.
And the sanctions are imposed thru the registration therefore if Rangers or THE Rangers buy over the registration the sanctions will transfer over.
So you are saying sanctions can pass over but honours can’t? Aye, very good.
The Celtic Football and Athletic Company Limited IS Celtic plc. The name was changed in 1994 to reflect the changed status of the company when it was floated on the stock exchange.
Celtic plc then bought an off-the-shelf company and changed its name to, “The Celtic Football and Athletic Company,” to prevent anyone else from using the name.
it does not matter whar all you tims and media tims say and think rangers will always be the most successful club in history and we will never die no surrender
Andy the club has already died. Its called liquidation a newco etc is born no history no titles.
Club isn’t dead, I do believe we have owners, players, staff, a stadium and a history.
Deal with it.
Andy Bluenose(nice name btw, an impartial chelsea fan per chance?), surely being a member of this universe where the consensus on time is that it moves in a linear fashon would make you think it is in unlikely a dead club can retain their self emblazoned title of “the most successful club in history” as other clubs gain more titles. Heading toward inevitably overtaking the prideful glasgow and st. mungos cup wins that holds together your claim.
To be honest i feel i am being kind here given rangerswill be stripped of a large part of their titles in due course.
It must annoy fans to know Rangers will never have a legitimate five stars but of course no one would be as stupid as to get them tattooed on theselves, don’t you think?
I’m happy with the one big star above my celtic crest, but surely the worlds most successful team in the universe ever, ever, forever would have a few ‘BigCup’ wins themselves(or die trying to get it ;o)
You don’t really need to worry yourself about that though Andy Bluehose, chelsea are doing not half bad; although i can’t say i like there fans too much :p.
Gretna 2008 also however have no legal connection to the original Gretna, so therefore another bad example. As for Third Lanark also another poor example as there is 40 years between old Third Lanark and the new one. Clutching at straws Andy.
Gretna2008 was created by fans of Gretna they bought over Gretna assets or ones they could purchase therefore there is a link between the two but both are separate clubs like RFC is now.
Wrong, The Rangers FC have a legal connection with the old pls. The Gretna situation didn’t.
You may not recognise the history but it is there.
the titles won under old rangers plc can not be erased.
The titles won in the future with the newco won’t be contested.
The totals can easily be combined as those of the club.
It lives with our passion and so long as there is football there will always be the Rangers!
By your logic one could infer that all titles won by any Scottish club could be regarded as meaningless as they were won against a company that doesn’t exist anymore. Behave yer self Andy. I know it hurts but Celtic will always play in The Rangers shadow.
Gloat when you have something to gloat about.
Your words sound more of fear.
Hello Andrew, nice name. Is St.Andrew not the patron saint of lost causes?
Anyway, by your logic one could infer that rangers are dead.
You claim they live on through your passion (lol).
The way a person that passed away lives on in the thoughts of those that loved them and there children, family etc.
Being the proud supporter of the most successful team in scotland(celtic btw) i am fortunate to know many of my celtic brothers and we are of the view that rangers (and the old firm) are a thing of the past. Gone, dead, past tense, dodo’d.
SOOO if they live on in your thoughts(and passions) then, let me assure you on behalf of EVERYONE who is not a rangers fan, they are dead. passionatley and thoughtfully. Literally and pratically. Actuated and realised.
DEAD
I no longer concern myself with what ever happens now. The same way i am unconcerned with what happens at junior football or east fife. I once cared for the old firm but now my hands are washed and mind is clear and I look forward to the inevitable 50 legitimate titles my team, the best team in scotland, will win.
p.s do not mistake my amusement for fear, the horses mouth tells you i am having a party with jelly and ice cream and thoughts of a club that once was so determined to try and catch up with those damn catholics and their european cup (67 btw, between real madrid 66′ and man utd 68′) that they spent and cheated themselves into the ground and forever shall they remain there.
Dignity? lulz
Best regards, have a grand day.
Rangers football club are dead.
The only history they will be remembered for will be singing 17th century songs that non of their fans understood.
And normal supporters of other clubs cared for.
No more vile filthy sectarian singing at Tynecastle at least for three years please.
Caught for being corrupt and cheating and they squeal like we pigs when they get caught.
And no other teams sing sectarian songs, are Hearts and Celtic both innocent. I don’t think so.
Also No-one has been convicted of corruption or cheating yet. So jog on mate
@Gary
You’re missing a key word…
“Yet”
No one had been convicted “YET”…
Everyone that got money from an EBT or sanctioned their usage will be hauled in. Liquidation was your worst nightmare as now this story will become about prosecutions as compared to the acceptance of a CVA and all forgotten.
Once again, this is not the end, but unfortunately it is only the beginning. One thing that Fat Sally said was right… R*ngers (Liquidated) don’t do walking away, but they will be led away in handcuffs.
Celtic’s company registration didn’t change, the timeline of the company was not broken – same company before and after Fergus and the fans saved it from administration event.
Rangers 2012 will have a new registration, the old company, the one that can claim titles, will cease.
Andy M, Why don”t you concentrate on your own club and its failings and weaknesses. One can speculate who they are.
Does 1967 stop or 1972 or Dunkirk or 1066. History cannot be changed, only the future and present. history is history.
Celtic for the record count their wartime titles. Rangers do not. Celtic don”t recognise an 8-1 defeat by Rangers during wartime BUT they do count the goal they scored!
As the poster above above mentioned Fiorentina retained their history and much to your dismay so will we.
I expect you won”t allow this post as the truth hurts.
54 titles and still going strong.
Just drove past the airport there and I season Celtics plane for their far east 2008 tour is STILL on the tarmac. Sporting Integrity. Don”t make me laugh
And Andy history is history. Rangers FC 1872 is now defunct. THE Rangers 2012 is born it has no history no titles no honours. Hidtory is history as you say but it cannot be transferred no matter what you or others think. Did Fiorentina go into liquidation? Dont think so. Admin yes and were relegated yes.but at no time were they liquidated like RFC 1872.
It’s not Rangers FC 1872 that went into liquidation, its the plc company formed in 1899 thats went bust. We are the same club just with new company running it.
Gary Rangers have never been a PLC u really do need to do a wee bit of research before stating opinions. Oh and Rangers 1872 is defunct. The newco Rangers had to buy the assets from old company yes but it is the club that went into liquidation not just the company. That is why the players can officially leave for free according to PFA Scotland because the CLUB that holds their registration is now no more. The newco the new club have currently no players, no league place no registration in the SFA
Rangers FC was founded 1872.
Rangers PLC was founded in 1899.
Rangers PLC during liquidation is treated as the parent (or holding) company (owner in laymans terms) of Rangers FC (1872)
Rangers PLC (1899) is now being forced to sell Rangers FC (1872) to the highest bidder.
As part of that sale includes the name (intellectual property rights), the company Rangers Football Group (Liberty Capital PLC) owned by Craig Whyte may be forced to find a new name, assuming they in turn are not liquidated due to investigations by BDO.
“Rangers Football Club plc, a company presently in administration. That company presently operates Rangers Football Club (to whom I shall refer as “Rangers”). Rangers are members of the Scottish Football Association (“the SFA”), and are bound by the Articles of the SFA”
So Andybhoy knows more tha Lord Glennie
Albert I hope Rangers keep their historty,thus,ensuring more embarassment for them when they get titles stripped away for cheating with the use of EBT’S.The arrogance of everyone associated with Rangers,McCoist,Smith etc is not surprising.No apology for cheating every other team in Scotland.The rest of us had to live within our means,some didn’t survive,some heartbreak for not being able to compete with the Financialyy Doping Club known as Rangers.Why you would want to continue as the same club is beyond all of us,considering the shame and emabarassment to the Scottish game..David Murray turned Rangers into a carcass where evryone got a slice of the meat.Now its gone.Deal with it.
Yous must feel really silly now!!! GIRFUY
Nice try Andy but fail. The business side died, the actual football club the business side owned did not!
The football club owes money does that mean the money the debt is still their then?
The company owed the money, not the club.
This is what you are failing to see, there is a difference as Lord Glennie has wrote.
All of the fans of the now deceased Rangers are deluding themselves if they think that there is something separate called ‘the club’ that can be transferred from one company to another.
Where can I read this ‘club’s’ accounts ? Where can I read its minutes ?
Twenty odd thousand fans of the now deceased Rangers had shares in it. Did they think they had shares in some mythical holding company or in the club itself ? Why would some of them even frame those shares and hang them on the wall ?
If the Rangers Newclub issues shares for fans to buy will they be in the club or in the company ? Answer: they are one and the same.
Across the city, thousands of Celtic supporters continue to own shares in their club.
To summarise: RFC 1872 is dead. It has been liquidated and the shares in the club are worthless (because the club and the company are the same thing). Charles Green has bought its assets and hopes to start up a new football club with those assets.
To do so, he will need a new SFA membership – because it’s a NEW CLUB.
If they field a team, it will be ineligible to play in Europe for three or four years – because it’s a NEW CLUB.
Any trophies eventually won by this team will be that club’s first. Because it is a NEW CLUB.
Simples, yes ?
C’mon Andy, 4 bad examples.
Airdrieonians – new club didn’t get admitted to SFL. Clydebank was purchased, moved to Airdrie, renamed Airdrie United. Entirely different.
Gretna – fans began Gretna 2008. Didn’t purchase old club’s assets, brand or anything else. Totally new setup which includes a new name to seperate it intentionally – they didn’t lay claim to the history.
Clydebank (Juniors) – another fan’s team reborn. Actually the fifth Clydebank in existence and more akin to Clydebank Juniors of 1899-1964 before they merged with East Stirling.
Third Lanark – restarted decades later with no links whatsoever to the hi-his.
You’ve not mentioned more relevant examples of where a new business structure is set up, purchases the old club (note – purchases club) such as Leeds Utd, Charlton FC and Middlesbrough.
All of whom had their old business structure liquidated and the clubs moved to new ones.
And before any claims that they’re not Scottish come into play, they done so under the very same liquidation laws which apply to Scotland.
Rangers as a club will be purchased lock, stock and barrel by the new company and will retain 140 years of history.
Whether you think that’s right or wrong is irrelevant, almost identical instances have happened before and that’s been the outcome.
Can’t change that just for Rangers.
The arguments about the past are rather academic. What must concen Gers fans is the future which hardly looks rosy. They can look forward to losing most first team players and life in Div 3 with the youth team playing the likes of Brechin. There will be no revenue stream to cover the costs of Ibrox or Murray Park and I wouldn’t be surprised if both grounds are flogged off. If the SPL don’t let them in which is more than likely asset stripping is a real possibility which for the fans is a far worse outcome than losing their history.
I’ve told him this already, but as per he either didn’t read it or refuses to believe it.
He doesn’t do facts, just speculation.
Clutchin, forever clutching.
If everyone tells you the sky is blue and you stamp your feet and say “NO IT’S RED AND I’M TAKING MY BALL HOME” does that mean you can sit at home and pretend the sky is red? Or do you just convince yourself because you can’t admit what every person who is not a rangers fan is telling you.
The sky is blue and the grass is green and rangers are six feet under, liqudated, like a frog in a blender becomes an ex-frog, but hop along and get your season ticket cos it is the REAL rangers, honest, HONEST! now give me your money.
Ha and ha.
The gers fans are still in denial over this.
Everyone knows and accepts that football clubs are owned by a larger “mothercompany”. It’s been mentioned above so presumably gers fans won’t argue this fact.
Well let’s say a large “mothercompany” owns a club and it wins a few titles and cups. The “mothercompany then buys or starts another club. I realise this can’t be in the same country but that’s irrelevant.
The new club then wins a few leagues and trophies but experiences financial difficulties after a few years and is folded.
The first team’s trophies are owned/won/registered to the first team owned by the “mothercompany”.
When the second team folded those trophies and titles which are owned/won/registered to the second team don’t transfer to the first team because they’re both owned by the same company. Those titles are owned/won/registered to the second team.
When that second team folds, those titles don’t transfer anywhere. They’re recorded as titles against that second team.
As far as rfc are concerned here’s what happened.
I’m not sure of the exact club names so for simplicity I’ll use Rangers1872 and Rangers2012.
Rangers1872 was formed by Moses McNeil in 1872. They won numerous leagues, trophies, ECWC in 1972, and won 9 in a row in the 80s and 90. However, they ran up a large debt and couldn’t pay it back. The club was declared bankrupt and folded/liquidated. The trophies won are recorded against Rangers1872….now liquidated.
Rangers2012 was formed in 2012 and is currently 1 day old. It has not entered any competitions and therefore not won any. It therefore has no history.
The “mothercompany” is irrelevant. If it was than any club was taken over by new owners and had its ownership transfered would lose its history.
Glazers bought ManU but history remains.
Liverpool bought over but history remains.
Both the above are because the club remained intact.
In Rangers’ case the club has not remained intact.
The only history it can claim is what happened yesterday.
It can’t be made any clearer. Claiming that being owned by the same company means continuation is deluded and stupid.
All those 54 titles (currently being investgated) and other cups remain with Rangers 1872.
Rangers 2012……has none. And since it has not won any games or scored any goals, is probably the least successful club in the world.
Typical mentality of the rangers fans.
“If we deny then it won’t be true”
Dirty cheats. Anyway, even Oldco Rangers is going to have titles taken back off you for cheating you’re way to winning them through EBT’s and dual contracts.
So to clarify NewCo Rangers are the SAME club as before, which will therefore mean that the old ‘star footballers’ of the now deceased Rangers will automatically transfer over?
Nope, didn’t think so and that’s coming from one of your ‘old’ players – you lot want the history BUT free from debt, no punishments (to which you’ve had NONE) and your registration to continue in the SPL with no future sanctions! And they thought Craig Whyte was dumb!
Ps. The no punishment line is exactly that, European inclusion is based on having 3 yrs audited books by UEFA, not a punishment merely a CONDITION.. At the first sign of punishment you lot ran (not walked) away to the courts!!
NewCo Rangers shouldn’t be sent down to Div3…. You’d should’ve been PUT DOWN period
I clicked to check if there was any factual basis to the title of this page
or if it was just an opinion piece from a bigotted Celtic fan.
It’s the latter.
As much as you lot wish different, the history remains, difference is we are happy to keep our history, most are trying very hard to forget certain parts of your history, but like our history it remains.
I personally am sick of the whole topic. I am a Rangers fan, I have little or no interest in supporting a newco. It might be the same carcass but the heart and soul of the club passes with the old club. I am sick of listening to vile Celtic and other clubs fans who are more interested in sticking the knife a wounded animal than living their lives. Get over it you pathetic fools. I thank Rangers FC for many years of enjoyment but have no time for this supposed Charles Green nonsense. Why anyone would want to play against the pathetic, whining bunch of clubs that make up the Scottish SPL is beyond anyone of a sensible nature. For years it has all been too easy. The governing bodies that make up rules as they go along. Just like the Scottish lords that squabbled for the scraps from Longshanks table. The SFA and SPL are no better. The game in Scotland is dead and pointless – a national team that has no ambition, the newly appointed biggest club in Scotland flys an Irish flag. A football nation with no sense of itself. Shame on you all. Follow Follow.
Vile club with vile history end off
Unrivaled history – silly little man.
Unrivalled in what respect? Criminal damage? I think Real Madrid and Barcelona will give you that.
A lot of hurting going on here, with liquidation goes your history. Get over it.
How can you keep the history of a club you no longer are ?
You should be more concerned about gaining a league position and retaining enough players to field a team next season. Good luck with that.
I think the fact that Celtic fans feel so strongly on this subject says it all. It’s a bit of a petty argument.
The history of RFC 1872 will always be associated with RFC 2012 (whether it’s written down on paper or not). The supporters will acknowledge it, and aside from the supporters themselves, the opinions of everyone else are irrelevant really.
You can’t erase history, you can only add to it.
Well I think “The Rangers Football Club” should not be allowed to play football in Scotland and here is my reason.
The first time I hear “Up to their Knees in a certain blood” I will want to know why they were given a licence to spout their bile, the SFL or the SPL would be guilty of inciting sectarian hate.
They know you know and I know the hatred that flows from this support, we are in 2012. It should be a condition that if any sectarian singing by their fans then their license will be revoked.
As they are talking about re structuring the SFL then it would be good to include this clause for all clubs and will rid our game once and for all of this sectarianism.
Im not on about the odd drunk, I saw a section of fans in a Falkirk game start to sing this rubbish and quickly and effectively they were stopped by other falkirk fans, we would see if they really wanted to compete at football or just wanted a platform to spout hate.
R.I.P. Rfc 1872…newco fc no history/titles/cups/trophies/honours…..keep deluding urselves ex rfc fans…thats 1 of the reasons how u simpletons ended up in this shit….hh
“Andy Muirhead June 15, 2012 7:57 am
The transfer ban and sanctions are not on the company they are on the club with the registration therefore it is transferable. Unlike the titles and history. A new club has no history or titles won how can it if it was born out of liquidation? If the club stays the same and history stays the same then so does the footballing debt.”
Your statement is confusing,
“The transfer ban and sanctions are not on the company they are on the club with the registration therefore it is transferable.”
Fair enough statement. Buy what fallows,
“A new club has no history or titles won how can it if it was born out of liquidation?”
You said in the first statement it is the same club?
And its the company that has changed?
So the history is with the club, not the company, as the histrory goes back to the starting of the club, not the company.
Something tells me you are on the wind-up.
The comparisons with Leeds and Middlesbrough are inaccurate.
Neither club was liquidated although both suffered near death experiences.
Both clubs did rebrand under new management and retained their league share and therefore their history.
Glasgow Rangers Football Club is dead.
The Rangers Football club has bought the assets of the “old club” with the intention of starting a new club.
Charles Green could equally take his newly acquired assets and sell them, demolish them, donate them to Oxfam if he wants.
A new club does not even exist at present. A new club needs a licence to play in the league.
A NEW CLUB has NO HISTORY
Clearly the bullish and bulLying attitude of the rangers fans transferred to the new business too.
I trust this unhelpful appraoch will be taken Into consideration by the clubs considering their application to join the league.
Only 4 need to resist. A bit of humility and remorse might pay off.
As it says to buy rangers and there assets which includes bans and fines hail hail anyhoo lol
Great article Andy on the money. My thoughts are awaiting moderation.
So Rhianna changes her name to Whitney Houston and now has a back catalogue of several No 1s, the Rankers history is just that, cannot be added to as that team no longer exists.
If everyone concerned with Rankers want the history and titles to be transferred (which they can’t) then the £100m+ debts should be transferred also.
Pay yer way ya cheatin bassas.
If you check companies house Clydebank were never liquidated, Airdrie Utd are Clydebank
Check back thru clydebanks history how many times did they cease to exist? And did they bring their history with them?
You cannot erase history just ask the ask Middlesboro fans It’s a bit like saying Roger Federer has changed his coach his kit supplier and his bank .
His previous titles are now wiped out .
That’s how silly this is Rangers have not ceased to exist the company which run the financial side of the business has been liquidated .
The football club are still here and will be for a long time to come .
There might be a few clubs who would like to erase their history but it is written in stone .
History cannot be erased it is as simple as that.
Love how even when Green himself and a few ex players have all admitted on camera that once liquidated, the history is gone, the silly billy’s are so permanently raging and delusional they think they can cling on to their dirty tainted titles and trophies (who would want to retain that history when titles were won by cheating?) and attach it to the Newco. I mean lets be honest, intelligence has never been the strong point of most blue noses but surely this one is pretty straight forwards. Just deal with it……it’s over….. Walk away….nothing to see here.
I am a Financial Advisor, with over 30 years experience, who has worked in many different industries including football, in financial takeovers, mergers & liquidations. I do not support either side of the Old Firm divide, but have friends who do support one or the other. I myself am more a Rugby fan.
However, the Rangers saga has been of some interest to me as it has played a major part in Scotland’s recent media reporting.
I am posting this to assist in putting certain misinformation to rest;
Rangers FC was founded 1872.
Rangers PLC was founded in 1899.
Rangers PLC during liquidation is treated as the parent (or holding) company (owner in laymans terms) of Rangers FC (1872)
Rangers PLC (1899) is now being forced to sell Rangers FC (1872) to the highest bidder.
As part of that sale includes the name (intellectual property rights), the company Rangers Football Group (Liberty Capital PLC) owned by Craig Whyte may be forced to find a new name, assuming they in turn are not liquidated due to investigations by BDO.
If no one had bought Rangers FC (1872) then it would of died along with Rangers PLC (1899) in the same way that Airdrieonians died because no one bought it.
Airdrie United are Clydebank with a spray job.
Basically Airdrie Utd used Clydebank’s Articles of Association & permits etc to play in the league. Since they’re not Airdrieonians or Clydebank they had to start their own history from scratch, although if you look at Airdrie Utd’s profile on SFA then it does state “Formerly known as Clydebank”.
ACF Fiorentina are a good example of one of many clubs to enter administration, liquidate, then return as a newco. They actually ceased to exist for a good few months before they restarted as a whole new company. They played in a different stadium for a while and had different strips. Eventually, they bought the rights to their old strips/crest etc & now use the same as the oldco (Italian laws are different, so this won’t happen to Rangers FC (1872) due to Intellectual Property Rights as mentioned before)
AC Fiorentina were liquidated in 2002 and later reformed as ACF Fiorentina a few months after. As stated before, they completely retained their history as can be seen in UEFA’s own public records;
http://www.uefa.com/teamsandplayers/teams/club=52817/profile/index.html
At the top right of the page it says AFC Fiorentina’s biggest defeat was in 1984. Which was 18 years before AFC Fiorentina were created & actually refers to AC Fiorentina. It also mentions many other statistics prior to the liquidation date of 2002. Had they lost their history this wouldn’t be mentioned or recognised on official UEFA records.
In addition, Hibernian FC, in 1891, ceased to exist due to becoming homeless as a result of financial mismanagement. In late 1892 they reformed as a new club after managing to lease Easter Road & played their first match in Feb 1893.
Despite this interruption, the club today views the period since 1875 as one continued history and therefore counts the honours won between 1875 and 1891, including the 1887 Scottish Cup, and this is recorded in official SFA records.
Lastly, if you’ve been following the Euro 2012 coverage, you’ll notice that Germany have 3 stars above their crest on their shirts. On international shirts, the stars represent the amount of World Cups won. However, Germany haven’t won the World Cup at all. That honour goes to West Germany.
So, in closing, the history of Rangers 1872 remains intact having been purchased on Thursday as an asset of the old holding Rangers PLC 1899.
You may be a financial advisor but your knowledge of finance and corporate structures is rather weak, Italian Law non-existent and history absurd. The analogy with Germany is daft.
Rangers were not founded as a plc they were a private limited company- they became a plc decades later when they owners needed share capital.
Rangers Football Club Plc is not the “parent” or “holding” company- it did not sell a subsidiary company to Charles Green. It sold most of its assets- namely Ibrox Stadium, Murray Park and Albion Street Car Park and the Rangers badge. Rangers Plc and all its subsidiaries and holding companies are in administration soon to be liquidation.
Craig Whyte cannot be forced to change the name of his holding company because it predates the incorporation of the newco. Whyte in fact could force the newco to change its name if it tried to use the name Rangers FC group.
The only assets Rangers Football Club Plc hold are monies owed to it such as the oustanding transfer payment for Jelavic (so contary to reports HMRC and the other creditors will get some money.)
As for Airdrie United i’m not sure what you point is? It is the sucessor to Clydebank- it just doesn’t want the history so doesn’t mention it but sucessor it is. It doesn;t claim to be a sucessor to Airdrieonians as a visit to the history section of its website demonstrates.
Fiorentina never went into liquidation- Italian company law treats football clubs differently. It was subject to direct judicially controlled administration. It was refused a place in the league due to its debts and therefore the club was effectivley put into a legal form of suspended animation.
A newco was created and basically bought the oldco, once the statutue of limitation on the oldco’s debt was over, out of suspended animation- a merger by another route hence why it can claim Fiorentina’s history. No similar provision for football clubs exists in Scots Law as there is no statue of limitation-clubs either pay their debts or get liquidated if no agreement with creditors can be made.
Funnily enough Bill Miller’s plan to create an “incubator” company and then merge it with the Rangers oldco (if a CVA was agreed) could be seen as similar to the process that happend to Fiorentina. He did that to try and placate the fans who did not want liquidation because… it would end the club’s history.
Your account of Hibernian which looks suspiciously similar to the error strewn wikipedia entry is simplisitc at best and wrong at worst. The club’s members fell out following differences over the Irish home rule bill and the fact that the treasurer stole the clubs cash assets. The disagreement between Hibs members and players meant that no meetings took place at the request of the local archdioscese- there was no bankruptcy as such. Factors that don;t apply in Rangers case!
As for your German analogy- when did Germany go into liquidation? West Germany and East Germany merged into one state; Germany. Thus like Fiorentina it continues the line.
Rangers are not merging with any aspect of the oldco, so none of the factors regarding Rangers apply to your examples.
Whether Rangers newco is a continuation of the history is down to personal opinion. History is not a tangible asset. Though Rangers’ corporate history has now been broken.
However as I understand the whole history thing became an issue because some Rangers supporters and ex players- like Andy Goram and Mark Hately said the club’s history would be extinguished if it went into liquidation. The ‘Rangers minded,’ or some of them at least, have made a rod for their own back which unsurprisingly rival fans will now use against them.
Incidentally what company(ies) did you work for as a ‘financial advisor’ so that i can avoid them.
thanks for that professional insight Richard .. maybe you should re-post it so that all the bigotted doubting thom(tim)ases can read it and reach for their (correct spelling !!) sick bags. NO SURRENDER !!
Last financial advisor really ? I am an accountant. If duff & felps had done there job rangers would have been liquidated in first week of march. Buying assets does buy
Not but history. rangers and Scottish football have been shafted. Murray by financial advisorsv? White by stupidity. And Scottish football by green.
Duff & Phelps were appointed as administrators, Tony. NOT liquidators. Administrators are sent in tasked with the purpose of trying to keep the company trading as a going concern, and/or where possible try to find continued investment, or an overall purchaser of the company. To that end, Duff & Phelps HAVE done their job.
BDO are the liquidators. It is their job to liquidate the old owning company.
Surely as an accountant, since part of any initial accountancy studies (HND for example) would include Business Law, you should of been aware of that?
Of course your grammar would also not be as “hashy” if you were truly an accountant.
Richard
In your reply to signorelli,directly before you slate him about his grammar & how it wouldn’t be as hashy if he were truly an accountant,you state that as an accountant “you should of been aware of that”
shouldn’t that have been “you should HAVE been aware of that” ??? just asking………
Yawn! 54 and counting…
Bill given the SPL announcement today http://www.scotzine.com/2012/06/in-full-spl-investigation-statement-on-rangers-fc/ those 54 titles may be reduced by a few. Just saying.
My mother used to tell me…if it sounds like a dead duck,.. walks like a dead duck…and looks like a dead duck…then what it is probably rhymes with a duck…
To be honest….I prefer the analogy with nazi Germany…that was racist and bigoted…but eventually came to an end…like rangers….and nazi Germany had to give Silesia to Poland…take off your tarnished stars….
Well as far as the history goes Rangers Fc 2012 will lay claim to the the history,,, here is why,
Rangers Fc Plc was formed in 1899, that’s the company that owned the club, stadium, playeres ect,
Rangers history starts in 1872 and lay claim to league titles before the company was formed in 1899, but these titles are still recognised,, the Plc company have gone bust but all assets have been transfered to the new company, try not to think of Clydebank or Airdrieonians but think of it as Fiorintina, who still have there honours recognised through Fifa and uefa even tho they haven’t won a title under there new co,
Yes Stephen, I realise all assets have been transferred. But a club is more than just assets. They also have liabilities. And these remain with the oldco. Also you can’t play in Europe for three years after a new club is registered. It’s a new club. The old club with the liabilities and the old registrations and the old history is a separate identity. Rangers died to avoid paying their tax liability. Rangers certainly has a history. But it’s not unbroken, and if rangers fans were a little more modest…a little more contrite about the financial sins of their fathers…they’d acknowledge that too…and take the tarnished stars off…
Sorry dude,but this is pretty biased.
If a club is 30 minutes away from liquidation,does that mean they have never been in administration?
Ross – Celtic were not in administration. The issue back then was that the Bank – same bank that left Murray run up £80 million of debt – wanted te debt of £1 million paid back to them by a certain date or thy would close Celtic down. Celtic at no time during their history from 1888 to present day have been in administration nor have ceased like Rangers have. That is why the continued argument about Celtic’s history being broken is blatantly wrong. When the club was bought over by McCann – no company was liquidated nor ceased to exist. You will find that Celtic Football & Athletic Club is still in operation and is within the umbrella of Celtic PLC. It is a blatant misconception that Celtic were in administration or that their history ended. Many of those who peddle it were either not born then too thick to actually look at the evidence or just know that they are talking bull but continue to do so anyway.
Check the SFL website, history and titles intact. Why because The Scottish Football Association membership of Rangers FC was transferred from The Rangers Football Club PLC to The Rangers Football Club Limited in terms of Article 14 of the Scottish FA’s Articles – simples!
Check the UEFA website Eddie. States something totally different altogether to what the SFA is saying.
http://www.uefa.com/teamsandplayers/teams/club=50121/profile/index.html History and titles intact.
Chairman of the SPL said “it is an existing club, even though it’s a new company”.
Only Tic fans can’t accept it.
Oh the history and titles are still there but with the UEFA website it looks like they havent played a single game since May 2012 http://www.uefa.com/teamsandplayers/teams/club=50121/profile/index.html
Plus you will find that it is more than just Celtic fans stating this Eddie. Either way the titles issue is still to be ruled on. The EBTs/Dual contracts scheme is still being looked at and a judgement is still pending.
It also shows that Dunfermline Athletic FC haven’t played a single match since 25 July 2011, oh hang on, isn’t it because UEFA only show SPL matches…!
http://www.uefa.com/teamsandplayers/teams/club=53034/profile/index.html
why not check their documents on clubs going into liquidation likewise FIFA – certainly eye opening and different to what some have been saying
Couldn’t find anything but I did note that documents talk often about the football company.
Incorrect. You don’t have to wait 3 years after a newco is registered. The company of a club has to have 3 years of accounts, and the SFA would have to grant the license to play in Europe. Big big difference. Also, SFA membership to play in either SPL or SFL was transferred. Same SFA registration number kiddo. Read a book before you type nonsense, cheers
How can Newco rangers fans claim to have ‘History’, it is a NEW club. You can’t play in Europe for three seasons because you are a NEW club with 0 games played! Ziltch, zip, nada. You can go on telling yourself that its the same club with the same history, but you would be wrong.
First off, Rangers Fc ( club ) and Rangers Plc ( company ) are separate since they were founded/formed in two completly different years. So if you are clever enough you will understand, that means Rangers Fc the club which charles green bought still has its history intact, while the company ( Rangers plc ) will cease to exist one the club has been officially liquidated.
Rangers where also re-registered in 1981 I believe and the club were founded in 1872 showing that club and company are separate.
And dont get me started on celtic being ran by two companies, dont believe me do your research but i will leave that for another day.
James…….
Charles Green didn’t buy Rangers. No one did. That’s why they were in administration for so long and eventually liquidated.
Charles Green bought the assets ie the stadium, training facility and anything else owned by the dead club.
Charles Green then formed another company to accept the newly purchased assets and is currently attempting to form a football club, and join the scottish football set up.
You’re absolutely right in that the company owning the club and the club itself are separate – it’s how most if not all clubs operate.
But the club has died having run up too much debt to pay back and has disappeared as I explained above.
Many companies change their name and change ownership but the company number associated with that particular company, never changes.
In Rangers case, the company number will not transfer to Sevco (or whatever CG calls it) because Sevco is a new company.
surely if the history does not continue the punishments should not carry forward either
Opinions are important to many of us, it makes us feel valued and informed.
For clarity opinions are not based necessarily on fact……its more about what we would like to believe in, influence and like minded people.
The facts are, Rangers history is retained if and when the the share transfer is granted the new Co.
If this upsets people, too bad – if it pleases others thats fine …….thats life.
I would like to share my opinion as many others have done on the subject of rangers history retention or otherwise by the new Co……..however like many many other football fans on here and other sites I appreciate my opinion really only matters to me….and other like minded people.
I will simply stick to the facts.
Rangers will retain their history if and when the share is transferred by the ruling body. FACT
If the facts get in the way of your opinion too bad, if they support your opinion your better informed.
What else is happening in the World?
Maybe if the newco win the 3rd dvision in the next few years, and that’s a big maybe. They could then put a star on their top. Of course it doesn’t hold the same kudos as the top clubs in Europe who use a star for each time they win the European/Champions League. I believe Celtic have a gold star for that very reason. But each to their own, it’s all about class really.
They can carry on telling themselves they have the history but apart from rangers fans nobody else in football excepts there claims they have no history …the stars were stuck there cuz they have no european stars so they invented a new reason to have stars as linfield i believe it was did to…new company trying to be an old company, ye would think they would have learned something from this…but it appears they just want to return to there old dodgy cheating ways as soon as the doors shut
“Rangers football club consigned to history the titles will not transfer over”
Called this one right didn’t you Andy?
“Rangers
Founded:1872
Club Honours
League Champions:…54″
Going to be man enough to admit you got it wrong?
It was an article based on facts and opinion Joey and I stand by every word
The Rangers page on the official SFL website is unambiguous on the matter.
Are you saying the SFL website is factually incorrect?
I am stating an opinion simple as that or are we not allowed to have opinions now about the Rangers?
If your opinion is that the SFA member club Rangers F.C. and it’s titles didn’t transfer over, yet the official SFL website (amongst many other sources) state it did…
Is your opinion not…
1. Wrong
2. A bit silly?
As I have stated, quite clearly I might add Joey, it is my opinion. Whether the SFL or other sources differ is down to them they speak for themselves and I speak for myself.
Not quite sure which bit you think is false.
Surely you don’t deny that Newco hold the same SFA membership as Oldco (namely that of “Rangers FC”)?
The SFA membership was not held under the name of the Oldco it was under the name of the club – it transferred over to the new club. If it was the same club then why did it have to apply for their place in the SPL again?
So you agree that SFA membership of Rangers FC, previously operated by oldco, transferred across.
Why then do you think the trophies won by that particular membership are stripped from it in the process of transfer?
The SPL membership, like the SFA one, cannot be transferred without it being sanctioned by the body itself. The SPL refused the transfer, the SFA didn’t.
Joey – the SFL membership of Clydebank transferred to Airdrie – do Airdrie claim to now hold Clydebank’s titles?
The biggest pile of steaming stuff in your article is your mention of Airdrieonians, Gretna, Clydebank, and Third Lanark followed by:
“what makes Rangers so different? They aren’t.”
This is FALSE.
ONLY Rangers retained (and are still recognised as) the same SFA membership meaning they are – in the terms the SFA regulations are written in – the same “member club”.
This clearly makes them different to all of the above, meaning you were fundamentally wrong!
The case of Airdrie is interesting as, being the same membership as Clydebank, they are in the eyes of the football authorities able to claim, as the SFL official website states, a “trophy” of Clydebank – 75/76 2nd Division (not to mention having a founding date of 1965!)
The fact this runs contrary to Airdrie United’s own wishes (they indicate no desire to claim any of Clydebank’s history) this clearly supports the idea that trophies do OFFICIALLY follow the membership rather than just being some kind of appease-Rangers stitch-up. Why else would the SFL show this info?
You said “The Titles Will Not Transfer Over”. This is EVIDENTLY false. Will you admit this?
You can run away from the truth by pretending that the above article was INTENDED merely as a confession of the heart, not intended to masquerade as objective fact, but we both know this would be a lie.
You claimed the above would happen, it hasn’t, will you accept you got it wrong?
Maybe you should ask the Rangers players who left over the summer as well as media and former players even Green stated that if the CVA was not agreed that the history of the club would end. He then did a u-turn on that to ty and get the fans on side. Just like everything else he has said since then.
Only reason why media are no longer peddling the line of history of Rangers has come to an end is because of the constant abuse, attacks and complaints from Rangers fans and pressure from certain officials. Graham Speirs said as much that it is pointless stating that line because of the constant commentary from Rangers officials who differ in opinion – paraphrasing of course as he said it on Clyde a few weeks ago – more or less the reason why he doesnt say it anymore is because he got bored of all the hassle from gers fans and officials.
Whether you like it or not I stand by what I said in the article and won’t change that.
Andy, you’ve dedicated a good few articles to your firm belief that Green cannot be trusted and now your invoking his comments to lend credibility to your own position? Wow, you do realise how silly this makes you look?
Anyway, I really don’t care what opinions particular individuals – media or otherwise – have offered on the matter because I’m not playing a balance of opinions game.
Who needs “x,y, or z said this” when I’m able to point to OFFICIAL sources/OFFICIAL authorities on the matter!
The bottom line is this:
The position of the Scottish football authorities is that SFA member club RANGERS FC has not ‘died’, it has survived, transferred from oldco to newco, and continues with on-going history.
Consequently your article above is either a pile of nonsense.
You KNOW that what I say is true because you haven’t even bothered refuting what I’ve said about the official stance of the authorities. If you had something that said “No, that’s not the official position” you’d produce it. But you don’t…
Nah. You’ve got nothing. Only an emotional refusal to accept that Rangers FC survived, escaped a mountain of debts, and the most successful team in Scottish Football history, officially, continues into the future.
By the way, there’s nothing at all wrong with personally refusing to accept that Rangers FC of Division 3 have any right to claim the history from 1872 onwards.
BUT when you write an article that presents itself as stating as FACT, not opinion, something which has clearly been proven false (ie. “the titles will not transfer over”) then – if you are honest and decent – you will quite simply admit that you got it wrong regarding this particular matter.
Saying something like “the authorities have decreed X but I think it’s a load of nonsense/a stitch up” would be fine…
but pretending that the whole thing never happened, contrary to Official sources that prove otherwise, is a position of dishonesty.
Its not abt peoples opinions andy its abt the facts!! If we say celtic didnt win the european cup in 67 does that make it true because thats our opinion
Also, the law states the obvious on the matter… History still there. Read a book tubs
what law?
Scots Law and all relevant laws, Company’s Act 2006 etc.
The law, SFA, UEFA and FIFA acknowledge we are the same club. I understand your anger and bitterness to see your rivals history remove, I get that. Ironically, Rangers are acknowledging the law and using its rules.
I could go over the ins and outs of the Insolvancy Act that could have tripped us up, but to be truthful you won’t accept it. And that’s fine, it’s all about opions, unlike the law which is black an white.
If I was in your shoes I woul be shouting from the roof tops about Celtic losing their history, although I would be doing it for a noise up… I’m not dumb enough to believe it.
And Airdrie Clydebank fiasco, behave. It’s no he same situation, have a look at the ins and outs. What history did any of them have?
Every single case that has been compared to Rangers has been unique for one reason or another. It’s this uniqueness that’s vital. All cases im talking about are Hibs being liquidated, Celtic own web of companies, Fiorentina, Leeds Middlesbrough etc
Hibs being liquidated? When? Celtic’s own web of companies? None of them ever went into administration or liquidation? So despite some Rangers fans wanting to compare to Celtic – what they went through is irrelevant as both issues are totally different. As for Fiorentina – they were founded as AC Fiorentina in 1926, but the club that is in Serie A just now is hot AC Fiorentina it is ACF Fiorentina and that was founded in 2002 – so again how does this compare to Rangers other than prove my stance?
Think you have to read my comment again. I didn’t say that I am comparing them, because, as I mentioned, each case is different.
The mentioned clubs have been used in the media and online in one form or another, by both Rangers and other fans.
So Fiorentina, not sure of you’ve been on FIFA or UEFAs or even the Italian FAs website, they are stated as having the same history. As you already know, Italian and Scots company law is different.
One of the many important and crucial factors is the same SFA membership number.
As for Celtic, this is a prime example of a clubs separability from the company that runs it. Correct me if I’m wrong, but the Athletic company. Is the one who owned Celtic when you’s won the European cup, but now there’s a new company, the plc, who run an operate Celtic.
I know the plc company own the athletic and another Celtic sister company, so this must show you how a company owns a club? Can’t get any more black and white.
What makes a football club, or any other sports club different is that, what exactly is it?
Also, what’s can be difficult for the average punter like yourself to establish is that a ‘club’ is a brand of the company. Yep. It’s that simple.
If coca cola enterprises go through administration, they can chose to sell off brands to raise money, either for creditors or to help stay afloat. RFC 2012 sold their assets (stadium etc, including the Rangers Brand) to Sevco, Now renamed The Rangers Football Club Limited.
IF the RFC 2012 sold this AFTER being liquidated, there’s hundreds of rules that would have prevented us from being the same club.
IF the SFA never transferred over the membership from the old company to the new company, we wouldnt be the same club.
You seem an intelligent guy, maybe read a book before you print fiction.
Also, I see how you completely ignore the various laws tabs governing bodies who say we are the same club.
Sweep sweep tubs
Funny how every comment ends with tubs Jamie. Just shows you up for the person that you are. You claim to be some law student but your mask slips continuously, given the continued insults you peddle I highly doubt you will ever get a job in the legal profession unless its as a copy boy.
Andy,as much as you and many others wish it so the fact is that the SFA Membership held by The Rangers Football Club Plc to The Rangers Football Club Limited thus ensuring continuity. This has happened many times in Europe and has always been recognised in a football context by UEFA, the controlling body,why should Rangers be different.
As regards Clydebank/Airdrie Utd,Airdrie Utd are in fact deemed a continuation of Clydebank after the buy out by Ballanyne. Thid Lanark and Gretna were in fact defunct and therfore no continuation applies,unlike Rangers who incidentally the PLC was not formally liquidated at the date of SFA Membership transference,3/8/12,indeed the PLC is still not formally liquidated so in that respect it was a buy out of assets under administration so no liquidation,no defunct PLC,continuation of the club
what desperate convolutions by the followers of Sevco-so if the assets are transferred before official liquidation then the “history” transfers?Arrant nonsense.The assets were up for sale because the entity of which they were assets,Rangers FC,was defunct and awaiting the official coup de grace.UEFA?Have a look at their website where rangers FC are listed as having played their last match on 13/05/2012.No mention of any games after this.same club?Not according to UEFA from whose competitions you were barred due to being a new club without the necessary 3 years financial stats.Remember Unirea Urziceni?Sure you do.Well,now defunct UEFA list them as having played their last game on 21/05/2011.Nothing after.they were dissolved so if there is a difference between a club dissolved and one liquidated how come UEFA treats rangers and Unirea exactly the same?Fans of TheRangers would be well advised to accept the obvious and cease their increasingly daft and strident attempts to change history.”same club/different company” is redolent of the worst first year philosophy arguments.
The use of ‘Sevco’ just shows your level of unbalance on this situation.
The Rangers – Using the forst two words in a clubs corporate name? Lol.
Should we call Liverpool – Fenways Sports FC?
I think you really need to have a think about what a club is.. What actaully makes a club, a club? How can amatuers team be clubs, when they have no corporate body? I suggest you read a book.
So, being a Celtic fan, you must be aware of the team, St Pauli? You know, the team who were in financial meltdown, looked for other like minded – far left supporters of other clubs to attach to? Well, as you Im sure will be aware, they are stated as having played their last game in May. Infact they did not cease to exist, but did infact get relegated.
http://www.uefa.com/teamsandplayers/teams/club=77894/domestic/index.html
Uefa only show upto date results of teams who are in the top level of their countries set up.
AND, its not because of a new club not having 3 years of accounts we have been ‘barred’, if a company who had 3 years of accounts, bought the club, then we could present these to the SFA who in turn hold the key if you like to a team being granted permission to play in europe.
There really is no substitute for proper research and an open mind.
NS
Look at uefa website says it all fiorentina who were liquidated yet have all there history parma liquidated more then once have there history napoli aswel….. leeds according to companies house formed in 2007 middlesborough 1986 yet there historys go way back…… dundee uniteds name according to companies house is THE DUNDEE UNITED FOOTBALL COMPANY…… also the prospectus givin by rangers before floating on the stock markets has rangers as founded in 1872 surely if this is not true the they would be breaking rules all over the place
@ Ryan
You can always spot a Bear by his mistakes (spelling being one of them)
Green can included any fact about your old in the prospectus since it is totally irrelvant to the proerspectus and the authorities.
He is not selling shares in your old football club or a new one.
I’d be more worried about the fact that they don’t have the title deeds to view and whether they are ‘subject to lease’..
Your dead club is about commit suicide yet again …
Have fun in the SFL Div3 season after this since there will be plenty of points deducted when you are forced into administration yet again.
LMAO.
@ Dhenboy*
Pulling people up for spelling mistakes on a blog like this is like correcting bad spelling on a toilet cubical.
Andy the walrus who runs this site must be a bear then with his spelling mistakes then…
A parting question, how many hours did you spend reading the RFC prospectus? Time would have been better spent with your familys or in the chapel than reading about the worlds most successful club.
Andy the walrus? How long did it take you to think that up? Its hilarious in actual fact. Those who cannot debate or argue a point fling childish playground insults instead. Thats the mentality of some folk.
“Those who cannot debate or argue a point?”
Maybe have a look back over my posts. No debate on my end, pure facts at every debate thrown at me.
I agree its all about opinion when it comes to the grey areas, but when there is articles like this one which are so one sided and ignore the facts it all becomes a bit of a pantomine.
Im sure a big guy like you can take a bit of banter and wont cry into your 3rd bowl of frosties.
So if hes not selling shares in a football club your admittin that hes selling shares in a COMPANY which is running the club it also states in the prospectus that trfc own ibrox wether irs true or not am sure we shall find out eventually
The Sevco propaganda machine is in full swing, I will give you that.
It only goes to show how easily people can be fooled, especially the ones that want to be fooled.
Rewind a few months ago – Charles Green stated on television that if a CVA fails then the club is gone and a new club with no history will be born.
The CVA was rejected and Rangers FC headed for liquidation.
But Charles Green’s Rangers weren’t selling season tickets – and then there was the famous speech by John Brown at the main door of Ibrox telling everyone not to buy season tickets.
But then Charles Green pulled a masterstroke – and he told gullible people what they wanted to hear – It IS the same club!!!
Season tickets soon followed and the rest is history. (oops!)
We’ve heard some amount of nonsense being printed in the media and like Andy said, there are those who just don’t want to challenge it because they will likely live in fear of threats. That’s the reality folks.
“The company liquidated but the club didn’t” – Rangers Football Club founded in 1872 and was incorporated in 1899. The club and company were one and the same. There was never at any time even a suggestion that they were separate until it was required to facilitate a lie in order to save face from liquidation.
David Murray was chairman of Rangers. Martin Bain was CEO of Rangers. Ally McCoist played for Rangers etc. etc.
“Rangers were kicked out of the SPL” – No they weren’t – they went bust. No-one kicked Rangers out, demoted them or relegated them. A vote was taken place to allow a new club to march straight into the SPL.
“Membership was transferred from oldco to newco” – there is a line of thought that one company can hold the SFA membership and transfer it to another company. Wrong. SFA membership can only be awarded to a CLUB or the entity that is responsible for player registration.
The SFA membership was removed from Rangers FC (who are no longer members) and given to Sevco(Scotland) who are the new members. Sevco then changed its name to “The Rangers” and we now have the shortened down version of “Rangers” – in order to make it look like a continuation. The reality is different though.
Rangers FC already had SFA membership – they were already members – why then did they need to transfer it at all?
“Holding Company” – there was a lie being thrown out of Ibrox that the only thing that liquidated was a “Holding Company”.
In the Rangers annual accounts (no laughing at the back there) whilst Alastair Johnston was chairman, it was officially documented that the holding company of Rangers FC was Murray International Holdings.
“TUPE” – players contracts are with the club, not a holding company. If it was a change of holding company then the players registrations / contracts would remain intact. If the club itself remained intact, why the need for TUPE in the first place?
“Europe” – any club who wins the Scottish Cup are eligible for a place in Europe next season. Well any club apart from The Rangers. You see UEFA don’t listen to the propaganda in Scottish football; they call it like it is. Rangers went bust and a new club formed. But no new club can play in Europe for at least 3 years so despite all the furore that the the mighty Rangers haven’t gone bust, actually the facts prove that they did.
And before you say “Ah, but it’s the company is less than 3 years old ..” think about this:
When Wavetower bought Rangers from Murray International Holdings – Wavetower were less than 3 years old, but did that matter? Of course not. UEFA look at the CLUB and the CLUB’s accounts, not a holding company.
Therefore if you allow yourself to be fooled by the spin that it is because “Sevco are less than 3 years old” then think again – UEFA don’t look for any accounts other than club accounts and THIS Rangers – The Rangers – have less than 3 years accounts.
As for the SFL website and it’s portrayal of “Rangers” – I have written to them 3 times to ask if their description contradicts UEFA guidelines – 3 times they ignored me. I guess that says it all. Although with guys like Ballantyne at the helm, it’s not really surprising is it?
It is entirely reasonable to believe that the Scottish Football Association wants Rangers to be seen as though nothing has changed and the infamous “Five Way Agreement” is testimony to the corruption within Scottish football that Turnbull Hutton spoke about on the steps of Hampden.
People say there is an obsession with Rangers. I disagree. There is an obsession with fighting lies and propaganda. And the Sevconians better get used to it – it ain’t going away.
The old Rangers Football Club owes many millions of pounds to many creditors including the taxman and that’s not even counting the big tax case which HMRC could appeal.
That debt will never be repaid because the club went bust.
Do u feel foolish now!! Rangers owe the tax man nothing. Rangers won the big tax case. Also the spl sfl sfa fifa uefa Eca all acknowledge Rangers history!! 54 and counting
http://m.stv.tv/sport/football/clubs/rangers/205975-european-clubs-body-downgrades-rangers-status-but-recognises-history/ have a wee read of that the
Haha Steff just noticed my email notifications.
Are the SFL SFA UEFA and FIFA all incorrect?
Not to forget THE LAW?? I love all the banter, but what amazes me is that you are a part of society who now believes your own lies. Delusional.
Do you also believe the world is flat? And that God created the world in 7 days LOL mental
The ECA is only recognised by UEFA it doesn’t actually represent them. Deary me.
By the way. I am still not sure if rangers are a new club or not.
You might want to update your story to reflect the truth, not your fantasy
Haha . There are a lot of people who posted nonsense on here who look really stupid now .
UEFA recognise Rangers history ………..End of Conversation . All the muppets that posted on here stating otherwise are …….Well …….Just muppets
No they don’t. The ECA aren’t UEFA. As for the UEFA website itself they have rangers’ last match down as the may 2012 win of St Johnstone.
I’m not saying rangers are or aren’t a new club, but don’t claim UEFA said something they didn’t.
Uefa have Rangers ranked 89th in europe, not bad for a team that yous all say only started out abt 6 months ago!! Above teams like newcastle and bordeaux
Rangers are a NEW club.
All titles won in the past were by OLD Rangers (not NEW Rangers.
Of all clubs in Scotland at this present time Celtic have won more titles and cups (by adistance) than any other club.
Rangers have only won the 3rd Division title. Period!
Get over it! Rangers are a brand new club and it will never match the historical legacy of Celtic FC, a club that has always played fairly whether it was signing policy or just plain rules.
Rangers have always been an obscene institution, although to be fair that was another organisation.Heres hoping the NEW club called Rangers can learn from its past.